Isn't MycoGrow + BiotaMax + Actinovate redundant?

Squidgette · June 23, 2012

www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html

I have been researching the products used in the pot drench solution for tomatoes prior to transplant and it seems to me that nearly everything (and more) is in the MycoGrow Soluble product. My question is....why would you need to add the BiotaMax and the Actinovate?

MycoGrow lists over 35 Glomus, Gigaspore, Rhizopogan, Scleroderma, Trichoderma, Bacillus, Paenibacillus, Azobacter, Pseudomonas and Streptomyces strains in their ingredients.

BiotaMax list 8 Trichoderma, Bacillus and Paenibacillus strains already found in MycoGrow. It has additionally 3 other strains of Bacillus and Tricho however the entire list for BiotaMax includes only 11 strains and excludes all endo and ectomycos when compared to the 35+ for MycoGrow.

Actinovate's active ingredient is Streptomyces lydicus which is also included in MycoGrow.

So why wouldn't you just use the MycoGrow? Just asking.

RayR · June 24, 2012

That’s a question I also had and it sparked me into doing some research to understand how the microbial world worked, something I’m still doing because I find it not only informative but fascinating! Geeky huh?

Ami’s method of mixing the three microbial products together may seem redundant, but it makes a lot of sense when you understand more about bacteria and fungi.

Just on the subject of bacteria, and I’ll single out Streptomyces as an example to be brief. There are many different phylum of bacteria, the genus Streptomyces itself is part of the phylum called Actinobacteria and contains many hundreds of discovered species. On top of that each species like Streptomyces lydicus contains many different strains, Streptomyces lydicus strain WYEC 108 which is a patented strain only available in Actinovate is just one of them.
The bacteria in the genus Streptomyces are known as the largest producers of anti-fungal and antibacterial compounds, but they all don’t produce exactly the same compounds or even the same amount. So basically not all Streptomyces lydicus are the same, they may have different antagonistic effects against pathogens plus provide different other benefits to the plant in the rhizosphere.
I hope that makes sense.

chalstonsc · June 24, 2012

Squid,
I had the same question after looking at the ingredients, so this year I did Mycogrow only since it seemed to have the broadest spectrum, and spraying with Serenade and Exel. Previous two years I did Actinovate and Biotamax also. Could be the weather, and it has been a great tomato weather year, ....I've had the best results ever, and my plants, released dwarfs and others are still cranking them out. Just sayin....

amideutch · June 25, 2012

I think RayR's answer pretty much covers it, well done. Here's a project for you. Go to google and google the 3 other strains of Bacillus and Trichoderma that are not in MycoGrow and see what they are and what they do. Then post your findings in this thread. Ami

Squidgette · June 25, 2012

I did one application of Actinovate at transplant with FoxFarm Jump Start and worm castings ... I have done a couple of Neptune's fish/seaweed foliar applications and side-dressed with TomatoTone when blossoms started to appear. I have gorgeous plants with no evidence of foliar disease, but I really feel I have a lot of blossoms which have aborted. I started 10 different heirlooms from seed mid-March and at 7 weeks they went into the raised-bed in early May...but only 3 plants have tomatoes in spite of otherwise healthy & vigorous looking plants. I am really trying not to throw the "chemical kitchen sink" on the toms trying to get them to produce but it's been frustrating watching such gorgeous plants not produce...I am admittedly a very IMPATIENT gardener.

RayR · June 25, 2012

Squidgette, congratulations on having healthy plants, it looks like your fertilization and inoculation with mycorrhizae and beneficial bacteria with Jumpstart, Actinovate and Tomato-Tone are serving you well. That's a big part of the battle, but there is nothing chemically or biologically you can throw at the problem of blossom drop since it is an environmental issue more than anything. This document "What Causes Blossom Drop in Tomatoes?" gives a pretty good explanation of the causes of blossom drop, you might be able to determine the cause and what you can do about it in your case.

Chrissykin · June 25, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidgette

I did one application of Actinovate at transplant with FoxFarm Jump Start and worm castings ... I have done a couple of Neptune's fish/seaweed foliar applications and side-dressed with TomatoTone when blossoms started to appear. I have gorgeous plants with no evidence of foliar disease, but I really feel I have a lot of blossoms which have aborted. I started 10 different heirlooms from seed mid-March and at 7 weeks they went into the raised-bed in early May...but only 3 plants have tomatoes in spite of otherwise healthy & vigorous looking plants. I am really trying not to throw the "chemical kitchen sink" on the toms trying to get them to produce but it's been frustrating watching such gorgeous plants not produce...I am admittedly a very IMPATIENT gardener.

This is the first year I used the drench. I have always been really simple. Neptunes harvest, coffee grounds, compost and garden tone. Up until this year I have never even used a fungicide. . Last year I had beautiful plants with tons of blossoms and by the end of the year I got about 10 pounds of tomatoes off three plants. So far this year I am seeing a lot of fruit set so I am hoping it was the drench. Everything else is the same.

Squidgette · June 25, 2012

Ray, it has not been nearly as humid as usual here in Nebraska this summer. We also have had a few days over 90 degrees (but certainly not as hot AND sustained as in years past). One thing I CAN say for sure is that I have seen only one bee in the past month, and no butterflies. I will get a second chance on these plants however...we return to Florida mid-September through April and I plan to take suckers from these plants for a fall crop in my "southern raised bed"....absolutely no problem with pollinators down there! The hummingbirds and butterflies and bees drain a bottle of H-bird nectar in two days. Thanks for the advice and encouragement.

June 23, 2012	#1
Squidgette Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 5	Isn't MycoGrow + BiotaMax + Actinovate redundant? www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html I have been researching the products used in the pot drench solution for tomatoes prior to transplant and it seems to me that nearly everything (and more) is in the MycoGrow Soluble product. My question is....why would you need to add the BiotaMax and the Actinovate? MycoGrow lists over 35 Glomus, Gigaspore, Rhizopogan, Scleroderma, Trichoderma, Bacillus, Paenibacillus, Azobacter, Pseudomonas and Streptomyces strains in their ingredients. BiotaMax list 8 Trichoderma, Bacillus and Paenibacillus strains already found in MycoGrow. It has additionally 3 other strains of Bacillus and Tricho however the entire list for BiotaMax includes only 11 strains and excludes all endo and ectomycos when compared to the 35+ for MycoGrow. Actinovate's active ingredient is Streptomyces lydicus which is also included in MycoGrow. So why wouldn't you just use the MycoGrow? Just asking.

June 25, 2012	#4
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	I think RayR's answer pretty much covers it, well done. Here's a project for you. Go to google and google the 3 other strains of Bacillus and Trichoderma that are not in MycoGrow and see what they are and what they do. Then post your findings in this thread. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

June 24, 2012	#2
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	That’s a question I also had and it sparked me into doing some research to understand how the microbial world worked, something I’m still doing because I find it not only informative but fascinating! Geeky huh? Ami’s method of mixing the three microbial products together may seem redundant, but it makes a lot of sense when you understand more about bacteria and fungi. Just on the subject of bacteria, and I’ll single out Streptomyces as an example to be brief. There are many different phylum of bacteria, the genus Streptomyces itself is part of the phylum called Actinobacteria and contains many hundreds of discovered species. On top of that each species like Streptomyces lydicus contains many different strains, Streptomyces lydicus strain WYEC 108 which is a patented strain only available in Actinovate is just one of them. The bacteria in the genus Streptomyces are known as the largest producers of anti-fungal and antibacterial compounds, but they all don’t produce exactly the same compounds or even the same amount. So basically not all Streptomyces lydicus are the same, they may have different antagonistic effects against pathogens plus provide different other benefits to the plant in the rhizosphere. I hope that makes sense.

June 24, 2012	#3
chalstonsc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: sc Posts: 339	Squid, I had the same question after looking at the ingredients, so this year I did Mycogrow only since it seemed to have the broadest spectrum, and spraying with Serenade and Exel. Previous two years I did Actinovate and Biotamax also. Could be the weather, and it has been a great tomato weather year, ....I've had the best results ever, and my plants, released dwarfs and others are still cranking them out. Just sayin....