MORE fungus problems

[babice]

Subtitle1: Fungicide Leaf Burn
Subtitle2: Example of What Not To Do With Fungicide

Was frustrated this morning when went out to check on toms. Yesterday, I was actually thinking my toms were looking better after having treated them with Daconil, Actinovate/ExelLG, Neem Oil or Greencure twice a week since my fungus episode about 3 weeks ago -- woke up this morning and they have something else going on. Like, entire leaves are brownish (as opposed to the blotches I had weeks ago). Not the underside - just the tops. What did I do wrong?

I knew I was going to spray them yesterday evening with the Actinovate/ExelLG mixture. So, before that I inspected them closely. Pruned off any more branches/leaves that looked to still have signs of disease. Was very careful to use Clorox Wipes on the shears and my hands in between plants. They really were looking much better and as I sprayed them, I was thinking they would look a lot better this morning.

I used 1/2 tsp Actinovate in 1 Gallon of water with 4 TBSP of Exel LG. Added some peppermint castille soap as the sticker. Sprayed them really well - stems, leaves, all around in the mulch, etc. It was shaded outside when I sprayed so I wouldn't think sunscald? I thought I was spraying early enough in the evening that it would have time to dry. Maybe it was just too humid last night?

[kath]

Sounds like the upper end of the Excel LG amount/gal.- maybe some burning taking place as a result? Have you used that much Excel before? How much soap did you use? Have you used that kind of soap before and the same amount? Did the leaves get any sun while still wet?

Sorry to be firing a bunch of questions at you rather than making you feel better. I'll take a look at your other fungus thread now for more background, but I'm not an expert on anything. It's easy to get discouraged when you're working so hard and they're not responding positively and it's a worry when you think you might lose them.

kath

[babice]

Originally Posted by kath

Sounds like the upper end of the Excel LG amount/gal.- maybe some burning taking place as a result? Have you used that much Excel before? How much soap did you use? Have you used that kind of soap before and the same amount? Did the leaves get any sun while still wet?

Sorry to be firing a bunch of questions at you rather than making you feel better.

Oh no - I want folks to fire questions at me because I'm not going to feel better until I figure out what in the hey I did wrong. I know it had to be something I did. I really appreciate the response!

So - I was wondering about the Exel higher dose thing. You are right. I jumped up to 4 TBSP; I used 2.5 TBSP 1.5 weeks ago. No, it wasn't sunny...it was the part of the day that the deck is shaded. I have been using molasses as my sticker and decided to use the castille soap this time. So, no - I guess I haven't used that before. I used maybe 1 TBSP.

p.s. I'm going to go take some pictures...

[amideutch]

Are you sure it's fungus and not residue from the soap? That's a bit quick for fungus to show up over night. Ami

[babice]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Are you sure it's fungus and not residue from the soap? That's a bit quick for fungus to show up over night. Ami

No. Now I'm thinking I probably overreacted and maybe it's not a fungus. Doesn't seem to be spreading.

If it was soap residue, would it rinse off? I rinsed them real good just now when I watered them. Some of the leaves that were affected have shriveled up and died. Not totally terrible on all the toms as each tom seems to only have had this happen to a few leaves. Except there is a couple of toms that seem to have it a bit more.

Possibly because I upped to Exel LG from 2.5 TBSP to 4 TBSP within a week and a half span?

[kath]

I think a tablespoon of soap is a LOT for a gallon of mix. I've using cocowet (sp?) and it recommends 1/2 teaspoon/gallon. I've never used another kind of soap as a spreader, so I'm not sure about what's safe but too much can definitely stay on the plant and have a residual affect when the sun's out again, especially if there is some dew and humidity rewetting the leaves/keeping them wet again. Is it Dr. Bronner's? Maybe someone has experience using that. What about the peppermint- is that an oil?

I've also had a problem with residue of Excel that pooled and dried in the cupping bottoms of potato-leaved plants- a day later these areas looked sort of grayish, thinned out and dry.

Did someone already ask you if you could post pics?

It would be a really easy fix if it's not a fungus and it's just a reaction to something that you're spraying.

kath

[lakelady]

Babice, early in the season I tried the Excel LG too, and naturally, used the package insert recommended dosage. It burned a lot of my plants and I lost leaves. Afterwards I found out many folks here were using lower dosages than that.

Also, on the package insert it does state that you should not spray to the point of dripping off the leaves, so I think it's quite concentrated and needs to be used sparingly. Hope that helps!

[babice]

Originally Posted by lakelady

...on the package insert it does state that you should not spray to the point of dripping off the leaves, so I think it's quite concentrated and needs to be used sparingly.

Oh crap - I didn't pick up on that when I read the insert. I definitely not only sprayed to dripping but went back and sprayed again several times (had plenty of the mixture). That could be it then.

I'm attaching some pictures. Four pictures of plant one - I pruned that stem and am showing you several shots. Then have four other tom's pictures...

Thanks!

[RayR]

What TheLoneTomatillo said.
Having used Excel LG this year, I have made some observations that apply to Tomato plants. I used a mix of 1oz of Excel LG per gallon alone, no sticker/spreader. I did notice some edge burn the next day on some leaves, nothing serious though.
It seems if the product is applied too heavily and pools up on areas of the tomato leaves, it can cause some burn. I've applied the same Excel LG mix on Cucumber, Zucchini, Pepper, Eggplant, Beans and Sunflower with no visible burn at all, so tomato leaves may just be more sensitive to a heavy application of this particular compound, so a lighter misting may be the way to go.
Mono- and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid have a direct mode of action on oomycetes pathogens, which are fungus-like, but are not true fungal organisms like Early Blight or Septoria. It is suspected that Phosphorous Acids may induce SARS in the treated plant, so may have some indirect effect on true fungal pathogens...who knows?

As far as it's effectiveness against oomycetes infections, I have had only one this year (thankfully and hopefully the only one), Downy Mildew of Sunflower (Plasmopara halstedii). I'll post my experience on a separate thread with pictures later, but I can tell you that the results were remarkable.

[kath]

The damage in your photos looks like the same kind that I saw on mine, babice. Another case of almost lovin' 'em to death, huh? The list of products you've used and frequency of your spraying schedule set off alarm bells for me, too. So now it's time to wait for new growth and treat it gently.They're not dead and should rebound in time. Lesson learned, don't beat yourself up.

kath

[babice]

Originally Posted by TheLoneTomatillo

There is no foliar treatment on the market that is recommended to treat so heavily that it runs off. Just sayin'.
(Never apply to the point of drip/run off)

Well - boo. This silly, little newbie has been having to learn a lot of things the hard way this year! Thanks everyone!

So - I'm guessing there's nothing I can/should do now? Just -- let it grow out of it?

I should change my darned signature line - maybe something like: "I love tomatoes but hate tomato plants!"

[babice]

Originally Posted by kath

The damage in your photos looks like the same kind that I saw on mine, babice. Another case of almost lovin' 'em to death, huh? The list of products you've used and frequency of your spraying schedule set off alarm bells for me, too. So now it's time to wait for new growth and treat it gently.They're not dead and should rebound in time. Lesson learned, don't beat yourself up.

kath

Boo again! Well - the frequency was because of the mold disease I got something like 3 weeks ago. Two times a week for about 4 weeks was recommended by various tville-ites. I didn't realize I shouldn'da sprayed to dripping...and then even gone back and sprayed more! I know I even doused the soil on some with the leftover solution.

Sigh... Well - I hope lotsa other newbies are learning from all my dumb mistakes this year! Another thing to add to my "lessons learned" post in my newbie thread.

[kath]

Originally Posted by babice

Boo again! Well - the frequency was because of the mold disease I got something like 3 weeks ago. Two times a week for about 4 weeks was recommended by various tville-ites. I didn't realize I shouldn'da sprayed to dripping...and then even gone back and sprayed more! I know I even doused the soil on some with the leftover solution.

Sigh... Well - I hope lotsa other newbies are learning from all my dumb mistakes this year! Another thing to add to my "lessons learned" post in my newbie thread.

I've managed to damage leaves with insecticidal soap as well as with the Excel and I also killed an entire tray of brassica transplants this year with a new foliar feed supplement that was made from greasy fish- so you're among friends here, babice, and we're all learning- sometimes the hard way.

It's good you're able to laugh already- some might take until maybe next year to reach that stage.

P.S. I missed your post #13 before I wrote the above! You've got a great sense of humor! I guess doing nothing would be best- maybe others with more experience might have suggestions.

kath

[babice]

Thanks kath! Preesh! Yeah, man. I figure if you can't laugh at yourself, you darned sure better not be laughing at anyone else!

[Mark0820]

Originally Posted by RayR

I'll post my experience on a separate thread with pictures later, but I can tell you that the results were remarkable.

Ray,

I'm definitely looking forward to your thread on the results you experienced. I've seen a few photos from Randall, and his plants looked remarkable. I have never used Excel LG before, but just might give it a try next year.