Seedlings progress

[kilroyscarnival]

I know this is old hat to most of you, but I have been watching these few little babies pretty closely.

Planted 10/14, three weeks old tomorrow:

Chocolate Cherry: the hardiest looking of the set. Chocolate Cherry.jpg I think they've grown nicely.

Mexico Midget: they also seemed to grow nicely. All germinated and look sturdy. Mexico Midget.jpg

Red Currant: I had to shoot down into the cup. These are smaller than the other cherries, and I've been adding soil as they grow, so these are pretty far behind the other two. Red Currant.jpg

Wins All: So that's what a potato leaf looks like? Wins All.jpgGrowing well, though in each of four cups there was a great disparity in the two seedlings, which made it hard to bring up the soil level. One was too wispy and I pulled it.

Question: because they are (mostly) two per cup, should I start to think about transplanting them, or let them go for a bit?

Thanks,

Ann

[gggeek]

Out of curiosity, why Styrofoam cups?

[kilroyscarnival]

At two weeks (tomorrow):

The pastes: two Super Italian Paste at the back, Big Ray's Argentina Paste in the middle, Egyptian closest to camera. Egyptian started smallest and now looks biggest. Pastes.jpg

Also, my yellows:
Lollipop (cherry), and Jaune Flammee. Yellows.jpg

Then, my nursery bought plants: Sweet 100 flowering, fruiting and climbing. One (1) red cherry. Waiting till Edgar sees it before it gets picked. He did, after all, build the fence keeping it safe. Phone Sync 11-2-2012 2171.jpg
Sweet 100 flowering.jpg

Patio tomato producing a few more ripening. This was my problem plant, but it is starting to flower again. The Better Boy is still all green. Patio ripening.jpg

[kilroyscarnival]

Originally Posted by gggeek

Out of curiosity, why Styrofoam cups?

I used some styro cups and some translucent plastic ones. I had saved a few from to-go drinks. I wanted to experiment between the two. My concern was that the Orlando sun might make the soil too hot while they are small, in the clear plastic. Ultimately, I think perhaps the styro cups were better simply because they are bigger in area.

For sheer convenience, the styro cups were easier to poke drain holes in than plastic. They aren't recyclable but they are reusable. I started some green beans in two cups and am reusing them for some peppers when I moved the beans into six inch pots.

Do you think they were a bad idea?

[Heritage]

Ann,

Your babies are looking super!

I transplant at the size of your smallest seedlings because, for me, it is easiest to move them at that stage. So, transplant at the smallest size you feel comfortable handling them. Since you have two to a cup it will be easy to take one out and transplant into another cup. (A kitchen fork works well for this) I also use styro cups the size of yours (8 oz.) for the first transplant and they grow there until they move to their permanent home. (about 8" tall)

You're doing everything right, great job!

Steve

[kilroyscarnival]

Thanks, Steve! If I were starting over again I would just do one per cup, since I am not growing that many. But I guess I need the transplant experience. It's been fascinating to watch how different they look even at a week old, and how a Laurel and Hardy can come up from the same seed in the same cup with the same medium.

Would you start with weak fertilizer at this point or is it too soon?

Considering I almost lost the Lollipops (started with a bang, straight up, very leggy, but settled in when I poked more soil around them) and the Flammee (knocked over) they look okay.

At least the cat didn't get them.

[kilroyscarnival]

BTW, had the bright idea of using plastic drinking straws to mark the variety and plant date. This was a pain because they stuck up so much, so initially I folded them in half, and then unfolded them at the point where I had topped off the soil. My plan was to keep the straw with the plant, but you'll notice the second batch I just wrote the name on the cup. The handy part about the straws, though, is the four varieties are color coded, so the blue (chocolate cherry) were easy to spot. Tricky to write on though.

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by kilroyscarnival

Would you start with weak fertilizer at this point or is it too soon?

It's not too soon, but the seedlings don't look like they are wanting for food. The soil mix you are adding incrementally must have a small amount of fert? You could try a dilute solution on a few or wait until after transplanting.

Originally Posted by kilroyscarnival

At least the cat didn't get them.

I wasn't going to ask (and admit I wasn't privy to the latest growing techniques) but I thought the straws might have been added as cat deterrents.

[ginger2778]

[Q

For sheer convenience, the styro cups were easier to poke drain holes in than plastic. They aren't recyclable but they are reusable. I started some green beans in two cups and am reusing them for some peppers when I moved the beans into six inch pots.

[/QUOTE]

Ann I don't know if you are aware of it but you can recycle all styrofoam at Publix in the green bins in front of the store.
The seedlings look good, nice job!
-Marsha

[carolyn137]

Ann, you noted above that your Wins All was PL, but that's not correct for the variety. It should be RL.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Winsall

Tania notes that PL is wrong as well and also says that a wrong PL version is being sold by some places and I suppose also traded.

I also featured it in my book on Tomato Heirlooms and it's long been listed in the SSE YEarbooks as RL and only quite recently have a few been listing it as PL

Not everyone who SSE lists varieties indicates leaf form but in the 2012 Yearbook three do for Wins All out of maybe 15 or so, I didn't count,, one source being Southern Exposure Seed Exchange and the other two from other SSE members or other individuals.

The problem is that one can't equate a PL variant with an original RL b'c there are different genetic mechanisms that occur to make that conversion. If it's a single spontaneous mutation of the leaf gene then yes, all is the same except for the PL leaf. But there are other ways that can lead to mutations of the DNA that can lead to more than one gene being affected, in which case one can't equate the PL and RL versions.

One good example is Cherokee Purple, which is RL, but there are two PL versions, Spudakee and Cherokee Purple Potato Leaf. There are those who have grown out all three in the same season, which one needs to do to make direct comparisons, and the results they give are not always the same as to the original being the same except for leaf form, or even the two PL versions being the same.

In my last seed offer here I listed an Indian Stripe PL, the original is RL, and many are finding that the only difference is the leaf from.

Yes, I know, I'm typing too much but so many folks equate a PL variant of an original RL as being the same except for leaf form, which is not always true, so I never miss an opportunity to talk about it.

If you feel comfortable about it would you please indicate the source of your PL Wins All?

Thanks.

[Father'sDaughter]

They're looking great!

I've taken to using blue painter's tape and a sharpie to mark my pots. When I transplant the seedlings, I peel the tape off and move it to the larger pot.

[kilroyscarnival]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Ann, you noted above that your Wins All was PL, but that's not correct for the variety. It should be RL.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Winsall

Hmm... My first thought is, I don't know what I am talking about. It sure looks like a different leaf type to me. Last night when I posted that I did a quick Google and found in a Rutgers (the university, not the tomato) site that it is potato leaf. As a Penn Stater, maybe I should have been suspicious.

If you feel comfortable about it would you please indicate the source of your PL Wins All?

Sure, and I found your info to be very interesting. As you know I am a rank amateur so I would have never realized any of this. I bought the Wins All along with my three cherry varieties from Totally Tomatoes, picking Wins All for the description of a complex flavor profile as well as a comment that it was prolific.
http://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?...ins+All+Tomato

The photo seems to show some leaves.

Concerned I am at fault here... Would not know a potato leaf except from pics. But my seedlings now have second and third sets of leaves and they are solid teardrop shapes, not like any of my others. Except perhaps Big Ray's, true leaf just beginning but I cannot yet tell.

By the way, I Totally messed up my TT order so I ordered and got 3x packs of Wins All, if you want to have them for research, Carolyn. I was just going to give at least one of them away anyway, as I only planted eight seeds from the first one.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by kilroyscarnival

I used some styro cups and some translucent plastic ones. I had saved a few from to-go drinks. I wanted to experiment between the two. My concern was that the Orlando sun might make the soil too hot while they are small, in the clear plastic. Ultimately, I think perhaps the styro cups were better simply because they are bigger in area.

For sheer convenience, the styro cups were easier to poke drain holes in than plastic. They aren't recyclable but they are reusable. I started some green beans in two cups and am reusing them for some peppers when I moved the beans into six inch pots.

Do you think they were a bad idea?

What you call Styrofoam is a registered trade mark of DOW Chemical.
It is really polystyrene and it is recyclable but maybe not in your area.

I drilled 1/2 inch holes in the bottom of glass canning jars last year.
I then put my seedlings in them and had no problem with the roots getting too hot.
The reason I did this is because I was tired of using plastic containers every year and having them disintegrate after a year or two.

To make the holes in glass you have to go on line and buy a diamond glass cutting hole saw.
And have a drill press.
I tried the junk you get at Home Depot and Lowes and it didn't work.


And no I dont think it was a bad idea but I would just plant the beans in whatever they were going to grow in from now on.

Worth

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by kilroyscarnival

Hmm... My first thought is, I don't know what I am talking about. It sure looks like a different leaf type to me. Last night when I posted that I did a quick Google and found in a Rutgers (the university, not the tomato) site that it is potato leaf. As a Penn Stater, maybe I should have been suspicious.



Sure, and I found your info to be very interesting. As you know I am a rank amateur so I would have never realized any of this. I bought the Wins All along with my three cherry varieties from Totally Tomatoes, picking Wins All for the description of a complex flavor profile as well as a comment that it was prolific.
http://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?...ins+All+Tomato

The photo seems to show some leaves.

Concerned I am at fault here... Would not know a potato leaf except from pics. But my seedlings now have second and third sets of leaves and they are solid teardrop shapes, not like any of my others. Except perhaps Big Ray's, true leaf just beginning but I cannot yet tell.

By the way, I Totally messed up my TT order so I ordered and got 3x packs of Wins All, if you want to have them for research, Carolyn. I was just going to give at least one of them away anyway, as I only planted eight seeds from the first one.

I checked the TT listing for Wins All and nothing was said about leaf form, but they're wrong on it being round, also wrong on being disease resistant and resistant to BER ( blossom end rot) Few if any varieties resistant to all foliage and soilborne systemic diseases. And fewer indeed resistant to BER.

I agree that what you show does look like a PL, but I usually wait until I see the 2nd to 3rd set of leaves to make a call on that, and you have, and they're still PL, so it looks like TT is also selling a wrong PL variant.

Thanks so much for the offer of seeds for research, but I no longer can do my own gardening of anything since Dec of 2004 when I severed all four of my quad muscles in my right leg. So someone in NC raises my few ( 40) plants for me, and someone else takes care of them. No more many hundreds of tomato plants and varieties each season, just 40 in gro-bags and containers in the backyard.

And these days I try to grow varieties that will be new to all, or most folks and do one annual seed offer here in usually early January, the 2012 one is listed in the Trade Subforum of the Seed Exchange and closed very quickly.

Carolyn

[kilroyscarnival]

Originally Posted by Heritage

It's not too soon, but the seedlings don't look like they are wanting for food. The soil mix you are adding incrementally must have a small amount of fert? You could try a dilute solution on a few or wait until after transplanting.

I started the seeds in little amounts of either pure coir or a 50/50 mix of coir/organic garden soil (Just Natural). Since Jerry pointed out that pure coir has no nutrients at all and would be bad, when I topped off the soil around the seedlings, I used more garden soil in the mix and less coir, and in the last set included some Just Natural mushroom compost and Black Kow. I think that's probably rich enough for now.

The plants I put into an in-ground bed, I had bought a cu ft. of commercial compost and some garden soil (can't remember the brands) and mixed it in with some of the dirt I had dug up, but was worried that it wasn't rich enough. So around those plants I put some Jobe Organics fertilizer. Also have been making a compost tea (steeped, not brewed) and using that for those and the other veggies and herbs.

I think, so far so good, and maybe they don't need more until they are transplanted. Thanks, Steve.