Help me succeed

[Craigaria]

Hello everyone! I have been reading the forum for the last week or so, trying to take in all the info I can.

I planted my first tomato plants last year. Three of them actually (better boys). This was my first time ever attempting to grow anything. No soil prep, just planted them and used miracle grow every two weeks. I also kept all the suckers and low branches trimed. The plants grew large but produced only a handful of fruit and they were not very large.

This year I want to step it up a little. I am only going to plant 3 or 4 plants, but I am hoping for better production and size.

I started a 5x5 bed and tilled in some composted horse manure. I was going to add some top soil soon, also.

I have been looking into a few different heirlooms but I may need some suggestions for planting in Georgia, just east of Atlanta. I would like to try for some huge tomatoes and for a plant that will put out large numbers of sandwich sized fruits.

Any suggestion on which plants, more soil prep, etc, would be greatly appreciated. I am very excited about this growing season, and I want to do it right this year!

Thanks in advance, Craig

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Craigaria

Hello everyone! I have been reading the forum for the last week or so, trying to take in all the info I can.

I planted my first tomato plants last year. Three of them actually (better boys). This was my first time ever attempting to grow anything. No soil prep, just planted them and used miracle grow every two weeks. I also kept all the suckers and low branches trimed. The plants grew large but produced only a handful of fruit and they were not very large.

This year I want to step it up a little. I am only going to plant 3 or 4 plants, but I am hoping for better production and size.

I started a 5x5 bed and tilled in some composted horse manure. I was going to add some top soil soon, also.

I have been looking into a few different heirlooms but I may need some suggestions for planting in Georgia, just east of Atlanta. I would like to try for some huge tomatoes and for a plant that will put out large numbers of sandwich sized fruits.

Any suggestion on which plants, more soil prep, etc, would be greatly appreciated. I am very excited about this growing season, and I want to do it right this year!

Thanks in advance, Craig

Sounds like you are on the right track.

For a few tips I would suggest less miracle grow and more soil prep. At a certain point in its growth tomatoes need less fertilizer which causes good foliage growth and lets them stop growing leaves and start growing Tomatoes! Phosphorous is good and other things like calcium help sometimes depending on your soil, but the BEST thing to do is provide lots of compost that will slow release nutrients all year. So start with the soil and use less or even eventually no miracle grow at all. (once your soil is ideal)

[Doug9345]

I second what Red Barron said and last year was tough in a lot of places for tomatoes. Tomatoes don't like it any better than people when the temperatures head for 100ºF

[Cole_Robbie]

You have the right idea in amending the soil beforehand. If I had to venture a guess about your garden last year, I'd say that the phosphorous in your Miracle Grow never made it to your roots. It does not move well through soil, but Nitrogen does, which is why you got big plants with little fruit. The P needs to be worked into the soil, or at least the hole under the plant. Everybody has their own methods. I have had good luck with bat guano and Osmocote.

You might try having one hybrid plant as your "sure thing" while you experiment with heirloom varieties. The hybrid variety Big Beef is very popular. You can also visit farmer's market vendors and ask them what variety they grow.

I have read that purples and blacks will tolerate the South's hot summers better than other varieties. Cherokee Purple is one of the most popular heirlooms. It's from the Cherokee Nation, originally of eastern Tennessee (now western North Carolina), which is not far from you.

[Craigaria]

Thanks for the quick replies.

So for the soil, should i add store bought topsoil to the manure compost, or should i just add something at the bottom of the holes when planting. Is bat guano easy to get?

It was also suggested to me to cover the dirt with news paper and mulch after planting. Anyone ever tried this?

The Cherokee purple sounds great! I hope they are carried locally. Do they get very large?

[Cole_Robbie]

Mulch is popular. There is plastic sheeting if you have drip irrigation, woven material like landscape fabric, or just simple paper. You can use old cardboard boxes or butcher paper, too.

You'd probably have to order the bat guano. Hydroponics stores in Atlanta would carry it. www.wormsway.com has it. I use Jamaican bat guano for its high phosphorous. Different guanos have different NPK numbers.

Yeah, both the tomato and the plant of Cherokee Purple should be fairly big. It's not too hard to find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_purple
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Cherokee_Purple

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Craigaria

Thanks for the quick replies.

So for the soil, should i add store bought topsoil to the manure compost, or should i just add something at the bottom of the holes when planting. Is bat guano easy to get?

It was also suggested to me to cover the dirt with news paper and mulch after planting. Anyone ever tried this?

The Cherokee purple sounds great! I hope they are carried locally. Do they get very large?

You can try buying topsoil. It is good for beginners that are just learning and don't know a lot about soil improvement yet. But you can also skip the topsoil and add aged manures and composts and other soil amendments to make your own soil into rich topsoil. If you can't find bat guano, it is ok. Composted horse or cow manure works great, just about any manure is good for the soil.

I have been using newspaper and mulch for well over 35 years. It is probably the best easiest most productive thing you can do! Then year after year you can either till in and start fresh with more newspaper and mulch each year, or go "no till" and just keep adding more on top in layers.

I started over 35 years ago with tilling it in and just adding fresh each year. Now mostly I use "no till" (except direct seeded crops). Both work good.

[Craigaria]

Good deal, I have an endless supply of composted horse manure. My daughter is a barrel racer and her horse ranch has a huge pile. The rear of the pile is two to three years old.

So am I correct in assuming that I should just plant directly into this compost?

Also, if I use the guano, do I just add a couple tablespoons in the hole when planting? Or is this not needed if I have the manure compost allready?

For a little background info, my neighbor has a large garden that we all pitch in on and reap the rewards. So if it is anything like last year, there will be plenty of veggies (and tomatoes) to go around. I am just looking for some showcase tomatoes to show off and enjoy

My perfect vision is to have some really large tomatoes on one plant and another plant that is breaking under the weight of all the tomatoes growing on it.

Hopefully I'm not setting myself up for disappointment.

[Fusion_power]

Grow a variety like Red Brandywine, Bradley, Druzba, or Lynnwood. These will all produce a good crop of tomatoes under adverse conditions. If you want to grow a hybrid, I would suggest Big Beef.

DarJones

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Craigaria

Good deal, I have an endless supply of composted horse manure. My daughter is a barrel racer and her horse ranch has a huge pile. The rear of the pile is two to three years old.

So am I correct in assuming that I should just plant directly into this compost?

Also, if I use the guano, do I just add a couple tablespoons in the hole when planting? Or is this not needed if I have the manure compost allready?

For a little background info, my neighbor has a large garden that we all pitch in on and reap the rewards. So if it is anything like last year, there will be plenty of veggies (and tomatoes) to go around. I am just looking for some showcase tomatoes to show off and enjoy

My perfect vision is to have some really large tomatoes on one plant and another plant that is breaking under the weight of all the tomatoes growing on it.

Hopefully I'm not setting myself up for disappointment.

Usually you will be fine with that 3 year old composted horse manure. To be sure just sprout a couple beans in it to "test" it. Sometimes hay and feed can be treated with herbicides and such that will effect your tomatoes. So get a couple Dixie cups and plant some beans in it. As long as the beans do good, then the tomatoes should be good too.

If you are just trying for some good showcase tomatoes, First amend the soil then I would paper and mulch BEFORE you plant your tomato seedlings out. Then a week or so later pull back the mulch and tear a hole for each plant. Dig a hole and mix that soil with more composted manure and transplant your seedling in deeper than it grew. Deeper the better. I mud mine in "special" water, but that's just me. Then pull the mulch back around the plant.

Plain water works too, if your soil is already ideal, and you don't have to "mud in" either. Mudding in is also not necessarily needed either, you can fill the dirt first and water after if you wish. Those are just things I do for that little extra edge.

Other things I do for that "extra" edge is companion plant and side dressing grass clippings to the mulch all year. Also a foliar spray of compost tea in the early growth phase helps, but I stop that once fruit starts setting.

PS
"special water" is water inoculated with a product like tomato tone, or others may have their own recipe which could include any number of compost teas, manure teas, seaweed extracts, dilute fertilizers, aquarium water, willow extract, comfrey extract or whatever "secret" recipe they like.

"mudding in" means filling the hole with water first, then put the seedling and then filling the soil around it.

"companion plants" for tomatoes include, but are not limited to, marigold, basil, oregano, rosemary, parsley, purslane, cilantro, tarragon, carrots, Alliums (onion and garlic family), celery, Geraniums, Petunias, Nasturtium, Borage, dandelion, etc. Just be sure to keep rosemary away from basil, alliums away from carrots parsleys, and keep all brassicas (cabbage family) away from all nightshades (tomatoes eggplant peppers).

I typically use basil marigold (and sometimes cilantro borage) just to keep it simple.

[dustdevil]

I would also consider contacting a Tomatoville member who lives in the Atlanta area...ScottinAtlanta comes to mind.

[Craigaria]

Great reply Redbaron! I know what I need to do now.

Scottinatlanta introduced himself to me in the welcome forum. I was hoping to pick his brain a little too.

[Craigaria]

One more question, how deep should my topsoil layer be? Right now it is about 8" deep before it hits red clay.

Also, I forgot to add earlier that I added about two shovels of lime when I put in the manure

Just thought of this too... What kind of bean should I use for testing, and is there one that I can plant now while it is still cold?

Thanks

[nativeplanter]

I like to put some mushroom compost in my raised beds. Do you have a truck? Some places that sell mulch might have it and you can buy a yard in bulk.

Also, be sure to plant deep, so you get plenty of root development. Otherwise, Doug 9345 is right; last year was indeed hard for tomatoes.

[ScottinAtlanta]

Craig, I will have about 200 excess tomato seedlings that you can pick from. There will be some Cherokee Purple available, and lots of others. They should be ready to roll in March. Let's stay in touch. If you want to do some research beforehand, here is my list of seedlings:

Red Tomatoes

Marmande
70 days, semi-det., regular leaf, heavy yields of medium to large red fruit, slightly ribbed, very good flavor,
Old Virginia (2005)
Indet., regular leaf, medium-small round red fruits with firm flesh and little juice. Perfect canner, and very good for sauce.
Mule Team
75-85 days, large indet. plant, regular leaf, large meaty red beefsteaks, some fruits were up to 1 lb., productive, great taste.
Abraham Lincoln
Large vines need caging or staking, 85 days, mostly 6-8 oz for me with an occasional larger fruit, slightly oblate dark-red meaty and juicy fruits, very good flavor.
Aker's West Virginia
85-90 days, indet., large regular leaf plant, large red beefsteak tomatoes up to 1 lb, excellent well balanced flavor, no cracking; a must grow for everyone who likes old-fashioned tomato flavor.
Better Boy
Hybrid
Chanoka
Collected in Vietnam
Costoluto fiorentino
indet., regular foliage, high yield of light red medium size beefsteaks that are oblate and not ribbed as advertised, despite the fact that my original seed came from CV Seeds of Italy. Excellent old fashioned tomato flavor, juicy, great in salads.
Iditarod Red
Early to mid season. Indet., dwarf (tree-type) plants with dark green regular rugose foliage, grow to 4' tall, perfect for a large pot. Small round red fruits, some showing a nippled blossom end, 1-4 oz. Balanced and pleasant flavor
Red Zebra
Variant of Green Zebra
Whopper – Park Seed
65 days from setting out transplants. Indeterminate. The original Whopper was an American classic, and its successor is simply the home gardener's dream tomato: greater disease resistance, higher yields, a longer season, and better taste! These big, juicy, crack-resistant tomatoes, 4 inches or more across, ripen uniformly
Super Sioux
70-80 days, indet., regular leaf plant with a good yield of medium to large red round fruits, blemish-free, excellent flavor on the tart side, very reliable producer

Black Tomatoes
Japanese Trifele Black
indet., potato leaf, brick red/brown pear-shaped fruits up to 2-6 oz, very prolific.
Dwarf Wild Fred
Indet. dwarf (tree-type) plants with rugose regular leaf produce loads of large black/purple fruits that are shaped like beefsteaks. 6-12 oz. Very good to excellent flavor, rich and smoky, with some sweetness.
Bear Creek
84 days, but was one of the first large fruit to ripen for me in this very cool, wet, blight-filled season. Produces 10-14 oz oblate, purple fruit (clear skin). Very meaty. Originally crossed and selected for flavor by Keith Partridge from plants grown at Bear Creek Farms. Variety continued to be grown out stabilized at Bear Creek Farms by Robbins Hail and was introduced in 2009.
Amazon Chocolate
85 days, indet., regular leaf, good yield of 2-5 oz brown-red fruit, good flavor.
Black from Tula
80 days, indet., regular leaf, good yield of 8-12 oz purple-black fruits with irregular shape, green shoulders, very good flavor.
Cherokee Purple
Indet., regular leaf plant with dark purple beefsteak fruit, 6-16 oz, outstanding producer in summer 2004, excellent taste, no core. Clear skin and some green shoulders that do not affect texture or taste.
Pink Tomatoes
Eva Purple Ball
indet., regular leaf, medium size perfect round pink fruits, 4-8 oz, very good to excellent flavor, nice texture, no core. Not a good keeper.
Marianna’s Peace
indet., potato leaf plants, medium yield of pink beefsteak fruit, 8-16 oz, very good to excellent sweet flavor, nice texture
Kosovo
75-80 days, indet., regular leaf, 8-12 oz pink heart-shaped fruit, good yield, very good flavor.
Dester
Seed Savers Exchange ‘Dester’ tomato was the second favorite at this year’s tasting.The ‘Dester’ is a large, full-flavored, pink beefsteak tomato,
Purple Dog Creek
indet., regular leaf, large pink beefsteaks with excellent flavor.
Brandywine, Sudduth's
85 days, large indet., potato leaf, 10-22 oz pink fruit, outstanding flavor, very good yield in my PNW garden.
Barlow Jap
Pink beefsteak
Bradley
Mid-season. Det. or semi-det. bushy vigorous plants with heavy regular leaf cover, moderate yield of medium sized pink oblate fruits, with excellent sweet flavor and solid meaty interior. Perfect for fresh eating or canning
Pruden's Purple
indet. plants with potato leaf foliage produce dark pink beefsteaks with excellent sweet flavor, 8-14 oz, meaty and smooth texture, medium to high yields.
Charles Herring - Porter (Reed Baize)

Yellow Tomatoes
Yellow beefsteaks from Atlanta farmers market – unknown variety

Orange Tomatoes
Kelloggs Breakfast
85-90 days, indet., regular leaf, very large (1+ lb) orange fruits, excellent flavor, one of my favorite orange tomatoes.
Dana’s Dusky Rose
80 days. Indeterminate. Into the third year of growing this wonderful tomato, we have concluded that it is indeed a great flavored tomato. Medium size with a good acid / sugar balance.
KBX
Late maturing, indet., potato leaf, bright orange medium-large beefsteaks with some ribbing, 8-16 oz, outstanding flavor, medium to low yield.
Jaune Flamme
55 days, indet., regular leaf, 2 oz bright orange fruit, borne in clusters of 6-8, 2 seed cavities, reddish interior when fully ripe, excellent sharp taste.
Tangerine Ailsa Craig from Chris Kafer

Green When Ripe Tomatoes
Lime Green Salad
det. dwarf plant, rugose foliage, compact 2' high bush, multiple blooms, 1-3 oz olive colored round fruit, excellent flavor when fully ripe, very productive
Aunt Ruby's German Green
midseason, indet., regular leaf plants with a good yield of green-when-ripe beefsteaks, often irregular shapes, 8-18 oz, sometimes with pinkish stripes radiating from the bottom, it did not show amber color for me in 2009 until the end of the season. Excellent rich sweet flavor, meaty flesh with small seed cavities. Flesh has a beautiful greenish yellow color, and it is almost 'buttery' in texture.
Dwarf Beryl Beauty
indet. dwarf (tree-type) plants with rugose potato leaf, fruits from 2 oz to 7 oz, 1st fruit was 10 oz, with the majority being 3-4 oz. Fruits are pale green on the outside, with some very faint yellowish blush. It is not easy to tell when the fruit is ripe, and a 'squeeze' test is required. Most of the fruits are round, and some oblate. Very nice flavor.
Cherokee Green
80 days, indet., regular leaf, 5-16 oz green-when-ripe fruit, beefsteak type, outstanding flavor.
Green Zebra
80 days, indet., regular leaf, 2-5 oz, green round fruits with dark green/yellow stripes, green flesh and gel, very productive, very good tangy flavor.

White Tomatoes
White Queen
Late season, indet., regular foliage, large white beefsteaks, 10-16 oz, but some fruits were 2 lbs., excellent taste and texture, medium to high yields.

Cherry Tomatoes
Black Cherry
47 days, indet., regular leaf plant, 7' high, loads of large dusky purple black cherry fruits, sweet, excellent flavor.
Riesentraube
Indet., regular leaf, beautiful large multi-flower trusses, very tough and healthy plants that survive heavy rains and long spells of cold weather and still thrive and bloom, showing remarkable difference compared to other tomato varieties grown under the same conditions, small round red fruits with a little tip on the blossom end, 0.5-1 oz, firm, very good flavor.
Sungold Select
Indet., but more compact than its parent Sungold F1, regular leaf, small 0.75" orange cherry tomatoes with very good taste

Ground Cherries
Aunt Molly’s Ground Cherry
Cape Gooseberry