When is a potato leaf not a Potato leaf ..Bloody Butcher ?

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by MrsJustice

I think the Bloody Butcher are the only deep red PL, I have ever grown.

Can someone list all the deep red Pl Heirloom only? Not the Drawfs

A good place to start ..is Tatiana's tomatobase website

go to popular shortcuts....then search list by leaf type ....potato leaf .


Very good start for your type of request ....as Carolyn is right that is a Big list !

But Tatiana's Site has already done the work for you ....

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by MrsJustice

Yes that would be a large Job: Miss Carolyn. But thank you for you for your concerns. I think you are beginning to understand me over the years. You know deep in your heart there was a historical reason of my interest in the Potato Leaf Tomatoes Plants. I Too have realized you love and passion for the heart shape tomatoes over the years, but I have never ask Why?

For over 15 years I have been trying to find the PL Pink Tomato Plant Tomas Jefferson brought to Monticello, after marrying is wife "as his wife family was already growing the Red Brandywines Tomatoes on the property before his marriages. After ruling out the Pinkish-Red "Cindy West Virginia PL": . The Only Tomato to fit Tomas Jefferson description that he added from Italy is the Sudduth's Strain Brandywine Tomatoes with Pl.

Farmer,
Joyce Beggs

Joyce, I spent a couple of hours today, some info I already knew, but I was trying to confirm some of what you said.

First, Thomas Jefferson was born April 13th, 1743 and died July 4th, 1826.

He marreid Martha Skelton, his 3rd cousin, in 1772, so she was already part of the larger family.

The wife's family could not have been growing Red Brandywine b/c it wasn't even known until 1885 in Chester, CO, PA, and that I knew already.

The first tomato variety known to be PL was grown by the Livingston Seed CO and just called Potato Leaf,now extinct, but on the cover of their 1900 catalog they pictured Magnus and there's some history there that might interest you, link from Tania's siteL

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Magnus

When Jefferson went to France as Minister in 1785 he did bring back seeds from Spain and italy, none were pink and no PL varieties were even known back then,

In several of the articles I read it said that many foks were confused by varieties grown at Monticello these days, thinking they were original ones that Jeffersons grew, but that's not true. SESE ( Southern Exposure Seed Exchange) in Virginia has had a seed rack in the visitor room at Monticello and folks buy those packs as well.

I read a LOT more than I just posted and Jefferson is credited with bringing back from France the small varieties Yellow Pear and Red Pear, and it's long been known that they are pre-1800 varieties. There are a few other pre-1800 varieties known and still available now, but nothing pink and nothing PL.

Above you posted the following:

(For over 15 years I have been trying to find the PL Pink Tomato Plant Tomas Jefferson brought to Monticello, after marrying is wife "as his wife family was already growing the Red Brandywines Tomatoes on the property before his marriages.)

First, he only married once and she died at an early age,

Second No smooth tomato varietes that were pink,nor PL were known when Jefferson was alive.

Third, Red Brandywine was not known until 1865 as I mentioned above.

Andrew Smith wrote a wonderful book about the history of theTomato and his research showed that no smooth varieties were known until Paragon and Trophy were introduced in the 1860's and in my tomato book I noted that.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/025...SIN=0252070097

Both Craig L and I knew Andy but have lost touch several years ago.

On one of my bookshelves are the two volume books that Jefferson wrote, called his Gardening Journals. I've read them both and the tomato varieties he grew were few since there simply were not that many pre-1800 varieties available.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...ening+Journals

Would you please share with me where you got the information that his wife martha brought to him a PL pink smooth tomato in 1772 when they married? I couldn't confirm that but hopefully you can help me find that.

I hope the above helps,

Carolyn,who did not address your question about ALL PL red varieties , as in heirloom varieties not ones that have been bred or are the result of accidental crosspollinations, but I can tell you that there are very very few.

[MrsJustice]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Joyce, I spent a couple of hours today, some info I already knew, but I was trying to confirm some of what you said.

First, Thomas Jefferson was born April 13th, 1743 and died July 4th, 1826.

He marreid Martha Skelton, his 3rd cousin, in 1772, so she was already part of the larger family.

The wife's family could not have been growing Red Brandywine b/c it wasn't even known until 1885 in Chester, CO, PA, and that I knew already.

The first tomato variety known to be PL was grown by the Livingston Seed CO and just called Potato Leaf,now extinct, but on the cover of their 1900 catalog they pictured Magnus and there's some history there that might interest you, link from Tania's siteL

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Magnus

When Jefferson went to France as Minister in 1785 he did bring back seeds from Spain and italy, none were pink and no PL varieties were even known back then,

In several of the articles I read it said that many foks were confused by varieties grown at Monticello these days, thinking they were original ones that Jeffersons grew, but that's not true. SESE ( Southern Exposure Seed Exchange) in Virginia has had a seed rack in the visitor room at Monticello and folks buy those packs as well.

I read a LOT more than I just posted and Jefferson is credited with bringing back from France the small varieties Yellow Pear and Red Pear, and it's long been known that they are pre-1800 varieties. There are a few other pre-1800 varieties known and still available now, but nothing pink and nothing PL.

Above you posted the following:

(For over 15 years I have been trying to find the PL Pink Tomato Plant Tomas Jefferson brought to Monticello, after marrying is wife "as his wife family was already growing the Red Brandywines Tomatoes on the property before his marriages.)

First, he only married once and she died at an early age,

Second No smooth tomato varietes that were pink,nor PL were known when Jefferson was alive.

Third, Red Brandywine was not known until 1865 as I mentioned above.

Andrew Smith wrote a wonderful book about the history of theTomato and his research showed that no smooth varieties were known until Paragon and Trophy were introduced in the 1860's and in my tomato book I noted that.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/025...SIN=0252070097

Both Craig L and I knew Andy but have lost touch several years ago.

On one of my bookshelves are the two volume books that Jefferson wrote, called his Gardening Journals. I've read them both and the tomato varieties he grew were few since there simply were not that many pre-1800 varieties available.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...ening+Journals

Would you please share with me where you got the information that his wife martha brought to him a PL pink smooth tomato in 1772 when they married? I couldn't confirm that but hopefully you can help me find that.

I hope the above helps,

Carolyn,who did not address your question about ALL PL red varieties , as in heirloom varieties not ones that have been bred or are the result of accidental crosspollinations, but I can tell you that there are very very few.

Hello Miss Carolyn

I have ben trying to find that information Students helped me with about 15 years ago at University of Kentucky. It seems evident that I have found any easier way to research our fruit and Vegetables Food History. I am excited and exhausted with all my research over the years. Jefferson’s only wife couldn’t own her father’s property, because woman did not have rights than: Only through marriage to Jefferson. Jefferson Wife’s were not aloud to owner her father’s land called Monticello after he died at sea. The Red Brandywines were already growing there according to the records I found there. The description did mention the Pink Brandywine Jefferson brought to Monticello. It's discretions stated that it shaped like a glove with pinkish-red skin, unusual tomato leafs nI think.

If I can just find my research I will sent you a P.M. Thanks for telling me that the seeds sold there are not grown there. That’s why I only trust Seed Saver Exchange and all of you that helped with this important research.

Maybe since I realize my research is very unique maybe, I will get the energies to apply for farming loans again to support my research. For years I apply and don’t even get a letter as to why my applications was turned down.

Farmer, Joyce Beggs from Angel Field