What do you call this soil?

peebee · November 9, 2015

I know I don't have the best of soils and have been amending constantly, whether its adding compost or cover cropping, etc. But I want to know what to call this type of soil I've been seeing all over my garden nowadays--is it silt, sand, or something worse?
Here's a brief description: it is what I would call almost dust-like. Very fine, and when I water the beds, all this dust-textured dirt floats on the surface. It takes a long time for the water to drain, which is not a good sign. Could it be that the soil has started to decompose over time? I know I need more "loaminess", more texture.
I used to make more compost than I do now, stopped cuz of the rodent problem. But I have added manure and dried leaves yearly. What else can I do to improve this? The beds are being cover cropped now but the floating dirt bothers me.

Thanks for any suggestions.

greenthumbomaha · November 9, 2015

What was the texture of your original soil before the amendments started? Are you no till? I'm starting the cover crop/leaves amendments so I can't speak to the long term results.

- Lisa

Worth1 · November 9, 2015

"Is it sand or something worse."

I can think of far worse soils to work with other than sand, like 3 million year old oxidized red clay full of rocks.
Simply speaking the stuff that is floating is very fine grained silt and or dry clay.
A good loamy soil has about 40% to 50% sand.
Another thing to think about is where you live.
If you live in a subdivision dont think for a minute you can assume that the soil you have was the soil that was there before they built the houses.
Many times cheap so called fill dirt is hauled in to make grade and level everything out.
They do this plus scrape away any top soil.
What we end up with is garbage.
One thing I see on the forums is clay and sand make concrete, that couldn't be any farther from the truth.
Sand gravel and Portland cement make concrete.
If you take clay soils and mix in 40 to 50 percent sharp sand along with good compost you will have some of the best garden soil you ever saw.
What this does is it keeps the soil from becoming rock hard and cracking.
It also will keep it loose and it will retain moisture and will absorb moisture better.
Sand is not evil as so many people think.
Here is a link to a very good site that will show you how to test your soil to see what you have.
It may seem complicated at first but study it and you will know what you need to do.
Worth
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gmdin-0aeTDr8A

AlittleSalt · November 9, 2015

Peebee, that floating soil is silt. When we go though drought conditions here - it blows around all over and coats everything. Everything around here has a silt coating on it - even inside houses and buildings. A simple search link "perfect soil silt percentage" https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...ilt+percentage 40% silt 40% sand 20% clay. Here are a couple pictures showing silt build up. I rubbed my hand on a table inside one of our barns - the other is on a deck.

peebee · November 9, 2015

Yeah I think you are all right, silt it is. No, I am not living in a subdivision and I've been gardening in the same area for about 20 years. The soil did not look like this before, so Salt's comment about the drought makes sense. I've noticed more and more dust inside my house too.
Thanks everyone.

troad · November 10, 2015

Peebee
When I read your post the first thing that comes to mind was you might benefit from Gypsum added to your soil. You might want to explore it as a possible solution. Maybe the following may help if the particles are clay. One thing I had read:

Gypsum Improves Soil Structure

Gypsum provides calcium which is needed to flocculate clays in soil. It is the process in which many individual small clay particles are bound together to give much fewer but larger particles. Such flocculation is needed to give favorable soil structure for root growth and air and water movement. (1)

References

1. Shainberg, I., M.E. Sumner, W.P. Miller, M.P.W. Farina, M.A. Pavan, and M.V Fey, 1989. Use of gypsum on soils: A review, pp. 1-1 I 1. IN: B.A. Stewart (ed.), Advances in Soil Science, Vol. 9, Springer-Verlag New York.

peebee · November 11, 2015

Thanks Troad. I have added gypsum many years ago. Maybe it's time I added some more, besides other things like sand, etc. Guess I'll make more compost again as I don't like to use commercial ones. You don't know what's inside them really, and the best ones are really expensive. It would cost hundreds to get enough for my garden.
Once the weather cools down here I will start working on my soil, after the cover crops are done with. Why are we still in the high 70's near Thanksgiving?

dustdevil · November 13, 2015

Your soil is compacted due to lack of rain most of the time.

peebee · November 13, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustdevil

Your soil is compacted due to lack of rain most of the time.

That's for sure! We haven't had our usual winter rains in what, 3 years? I can't even recall the last time I saw rain during daylight hours...the last rainfall was maybe 2 months ago, and it happened at night so I only knew it rained cuz the pavement was wet and everything looked so washed and clean.

AlittleSalt · November 14, 2015

Peebee, as you already know, the answer is water. We can add all sorts of things, but without water - those things are just something else that needs water. Just like us.

I have read PMs where people have written about getting water from wherever it is available including creeks, rivers, and lakes. Saving water from the roof runoff (A cistern). Our grandparents and great grandparents did this - and throughout history people have done this. What I've learned in life is to be honest a caring and do whatever it responsibly takes to make ends meet. Often times, that includes learning how others did things a hundred or more years ago. I know in this day and time - that sounds kind of backwards, but learning from history makes sense.

Sorry, I didn't mean to go on-and-on

Water will take care of the floating soil. I watched it happen in our garden. No matter how you provide it - water is the answer.

Cole_Robbie · November 14, 2015

Compost, or any good dark soil, will contain humates and humic acid. It's a growth accelerator, and it also helps the plant uptake water more efficiently.

I've given up on tilling and a lot of the ideas that go with it. I just get the best soil I can, then pile it into rows, cover that with drip tape and plastic mulch, and that's my garden. The space that my roots occupy is not very big, but it doesn't have to be with good soil. I get huge plants even though each one grows in only about 1-2 cubic feet of soil. And that's without using fertilizer.

I've also noticed that I hardly have to water, either. The soil is so good that the plants make the most of the water they have.

Lindalana · November 14, 2015

Soil does not like to be naked. Mulching all the time, leaf mold, green mulch, cover cropping will take care of many things and structures. There should be plenty of leaves around now. My most fave. I take all I could from the streets.

November 9, 2015	#1
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	What do you call this soil? I know I don't have the best of soils and have been amending constantly, whether its adding compost or cover cropping, etc. But I want to know what to call this type of soil I've been seeing all over my garden nowadays--is it silt, sand, or something worse? Here's a brief description: it is what I would call almost dust-like. Very fine, and when I water the beds, all this dust-textured dirt floats on the surface. It takes a long time for the water to drain, which is not a good sign. Could it be that the soil has started to decompose over time? I know I need more "loaminess", more texture. I used to make more compost than I do now, stopped cuz of the rodent problem. But I have added manure and dried leaves yearly. What else can I do to improve this? The beds are being cover cropped now but the floating dirt bothers me. Thanks for any suggestions.

November 10, 2015	#6
troad Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Des Moines, WA. Posts: 358	Peebee When I read your post the first thing that comes to mind was you might benefit from Gypsum added to your soil. You might want to explore it as a possible solution. Maybe the following may help if the particles are clay. One thing I had read: Gypsum Improves Soil Structure Gypsum provides calcium which is needed to flocculate clays in soil. It is the process in which many individual small clay particles are bound together to give much fewer but larger particles. Such flocculation is needed to give favorable soil structure for root growth and air and water movement. (1) References 1. Shainberg, I., M.E. Sumner, W.P. Miller, M.P.W. Farina, M.A. Pavan, and M.V Fey, 1989. Use of gypsum on soils: A review, pp. 1-1 I 1. IN: B.A. Stewart (ed.), Advances in Soil Science, Vol. 9, Springer-Verlag New York. __________________ There's a fine line between gardening and madness.

November 9, 2015	#2
greenthumbomaha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Omaha Zone 5 Posts: 2,514	What was the texture of your original soil before the amendments started? Are you no till? I'm starting the cover crop/leaves amendments so I can't speak to the long term results. - Lisa

November 9, 2015	#3
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	"Is it sand or something worse." I can think of far worse soils to work with other than sand, like 3 million year old oxidized red clay full of rocks. Simply speaking the stuff that is floating is very fine grained silt and or dry clay. A good loamy soil has about 40% to 50% sand. Another thing to think about is where you live. If you live in a subdivision dont think for a minute you can assume that the soil you have was the soil that was there before they built the houses. Many times cheap so called fill dirt is hauled in to make grade and level everything out. They do this plus scrape away any top soil. What we end up with is garbage. One thing I see on the forums is clay and sand make concrete, that couldn't be any farther from the truth. Sand gravel and Portland cement make concrete. If you take clay soils and mix in 40 to 50 percent sharp sand along with good compost you will have some of the best garden soil you ever saw. What this does is it keeps the soil from becoming rock hard and cracking. It also will keep it loose and it will retain moisture and will absorb moisture better. Sand is not evil as so many people think. Here is a link to a very good site that will show you how to test your soil to see what you have. It may seem complicated at first but study it and you will know what you need to do. Worth https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gmdin-0aeTDr8A

November 11, 2015	#7
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Thanks Troad. I have added gypsum many years ago. Maybe it's time I added some more, besides other things like sand, etc. Guess I'll make more compost again as I don't like to use commercial ones. You don't know what's inside them really, and the best ones are really expensive. It would cost hundreds to get enough for my garden. Once the weather cools down here I will start working on my soil, after the cover crops are done with. Why are we still in the high 70's near Thanksgiving?

November 13, 2015	#8
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	Your soil is compacted due to lack of rain most of the time.

November 14, 2015	#10
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Peebee, as you already know, the answer is water. We can add all sorts of things, but without water - those things are just something else that needs water. Just like us. I have read PMs where people have written about getting water from wherever it is available including creeks, rivers, and lakes. Saving water from the roof runoff (A cistern). Our grandparents and great grandparents did this - and throughout history people have done this. What I've learned in life is to be honest a caring and do whatever it responsibly takes to make ends meet. Often times, that includes learning how others did things a hundred or more years ago. I know in this day and time - that sounds kind of backwards, but learning from history makes sense. Sorry, I didn't mean to go on-and-on Water will take care of the floating soil. I watched it happen in our garden. No matter how you provide it - water is the answer.

November 14, 2015	#11
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Compost, or any good dark soil, will contain humates and humic acid. It's a growth accelerator, and it also helps the plant uptake water more efficiently. I've given up on tilling and a lot of the ideas that go with it. I just get the best soil I can, then pile it into rows, cover that with drip tape and plastic mulch, and that's my garden. The space that my roots occupy is not very big, but it doesn't have to be with good soil. I get huge plants even though each one grows in only about 1-2 cubic feet of soil. And that's without using fertilizer. I've also noticed that I hardly have to water, either. The soil is so good that the plants make the most of the water they have.

November 14, 2015	#12
Lindalana Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 857	Soil does not like to be naked. Mulching all the time, leaf mold, green mulch, cover cropping will take care of many things and structures. There should be plenty of leaves around now. My most fave. I take all I could from the streets.