soil test results.....beyond reclamation?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Barbee

So those of us who choose to use non organic methods to improve our soil or a combination of organics and non organics are not allowed to post in this forum? Is that what you're saying?

absolutely not, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. But that soil test had SOM of 16+ It's practically compost! When your SOM is 16+ there is no reason for ammonium nitrate. Now for me sitting at one field around 1 SOM I probably will try to fertilise and improve soil both (with cover crops and mulches) while I am decidedly in favor of organic methods, because as a general rule of thumb they are superior at improving soil quality, it's situational. Honestly I'll be happy when I get up to 6...16 is nothing but a dream.

Originally Posted by UFXEFU

Thanks for the information, that's why I'm adding leaves to my garden over the winter to raise the organic content. Even with a high organic content and low nitrogen plants are not going to thrive. I'm new to soil building, so how long will it take for enough nitrogen to be added through mineralization to allow plants to thrive without commercial nitrogen?

Well it all depends on soil biota, but with a good cover crop blend and the leaves you could experiment will reducing it right away. That's why I suggested to them to inoculate at the start. Since it wasn't a haney test, just added insurance. With a Haney test you could get a better Idea. [1] But the test is pricey compared to standard tests. I couldn't afford it last year. Hopefully this year I won't have 3 feet of water in the field and I will be able to field test a few things much better.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Barbee

So those of us who choose to use non organic methods to improve our soil or a combination of organics and non organics are not allowed to post in this forum? Is that what you're saying?

I agree we should be able to post our thoughts.

This is why I am reluctant to even post anything here in this part of the forum because of all of the controversy about things.

Yet again I see a soil test coming back with depleted nitrogen and too much P and K.
I see no reason a person couldn't just add an organic source of nitrogen and be done with it.
Not only would it help break down the compost it would feed the plants.
Mow I'm going to wish I didn't even post this.
Worth

[RayR]

In case anybody is wondering what the
Haney Test is, it was developed by Rick Haney of the USDA Agricultural Research Service.
I don't know if anyone posted this before but here's an interesting talk by Rick Haney.

Soil Health Principles - Rick Haney

[Barbee]

Quote red baron:
absolutely not, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. But that soil test had SOM of 16+ It's practically compost! When your SOM is 16+ there is no reason for ammonium nitrate. Now for me sitting at one field around 1 SOM I probably will try to fertilise and improve soil both (with cover crops and mulches) while I am decidedly in favor of organic methods, because as a general rule of thumb they are superior at improving soil quality, it's situational. Honestly I'll be happy when I get up to 6...16 is nothing but a dream.

Organic matter of 16 is great and not as out of the ordinary as you seem to think. The best feature of organic matter is its ability to hold nutrients and release them as the plant demands it without overdosing it. I know growers with organic matter in the mid 30 range and they are not a bit afraid to add nitrogen. This person has a nitogen reading of 1 ppm. Thats not going to grow any salad. Organic sources of nitrogen are for slow release. Synthetic forms of nitrogen are quick release. Each type can have a place in the home garden depending on what your needs are.

To the OP, if it was cold when you drew your soil sample that can throw your N results off. I would recomend you add your normal fall amendments and retest in the spring prior to plant out. Any N you would add at this point will pretty much leach out. Come spring, you can get a plan in place to address your N deficiency. Make sure you check the box for recomendations and the lab will tell you exactly how much N you need to add. At that point you can decide if you want to use organic, synthetic, or a combo of both.

If you are looking for a good mycorrhiza product i would suggest you check out the RTI line. They also make a product called Azos which is azosprillum ..a nitogen fixing bacteria. I personally use both products and love them.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Yes here is one Jobe's organic Water Soluble Heirloom Tomato and Vegetable Plant Food
Probably only need to use it at transplant time.

Thanks, Redbaron... That is perfect. My soil has lots of organic matter. So I need some microbes to convert some of it into plant food.

I am also lacking things like iron (Fe) and sulfur (S).
I think "Ammonium sulfate , like lilly Miller 21-0-0, is the best bet to take care of Nitrogen and Sulfur at the same time.
To take care of Fe deficiency, probably I will throw in bunch of nails Just kidding
Gardeneer

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I agree we should be able to post our thoughts.

This is why I am reluctant to even post anything here in this part of the forum because of all of the controversy about things.

Yet again I see a soil test coming back with depleted nitrogen and too much P and K.
I see no reason a person couldn't just add an organic source of nitrogen and be done with it.
Not only would it help break down the compost it would feed the plants.
Mow I'm going to wish I didn't even post this.
Worth

Yeah. My soil test results are typical: N is Low , P and K high.
I know why N is low. I kept fertilizing with high P,K ( 0-10- 10, 12-4-8)and then I stopped fertilizing all together sometime in September. And with the rain pouring down (PNW , you know !!) the soil is depleted of N. Taking care of that the easiest part for me,: (Manure + Ammonium Sulfate).

I am not an for or against Organic Gardener per se . I use a lot of manure , compost etc. I find organic fertilizers beyond my wallet
But I will get some of that JOB's job , to hire some microbes.
May your gardens be fruitful

Gardeneer

[Worth1]

Iornite can take care of Fe.

As for the organic fertilizer prices I find it aggravating.
It seems all you have to do new days is put organic on something and you can jack the price up.
Some of it is just over the top.

Now I am thinking of a cartoon where a home owner is standing over an intruder he just shot saying.
You will be happy to know you have just been shot with all organic, pesticide, gluten and GMO free home grown ammunition.
Worth

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Barbee

If you are looking for a good mycorrhiza product i would suggest you check out the RTI line. They also make a product called Azos which is azosprillum ..a nitogen fixing bacteria. I personally use both products and love them.

That is one thing a conventional soil lab test can't determine, the impact of Nitrogen Fixing bacteria and bacteria in general since they are the primary sink of Nitrogen in a living soil. A conventional soil lab test can't determine the impact mycorrhizal fungi on nutrient uptake by the plant either.
A conventional soil test is a snapshot in time using harsh acids and bases to extract an measure nutrients, which is not what plants and other soil life experience day to day. Soil tests from different labs can even yield very different results on the same samples depending on the extraction methods used.
I wouldn't put all my faith into a lab test result, it may yield some clues if you are having plant growth issues but the gardener has to be the ultimate factor by watching and getting to know what the plant is telling you. Is it nutrient deficiency or imbalance? Is it a disease causing pathogen? Is it insects? Is it an environmental issue? Is it a lack of good soil biology? Or did the gardener just screw things up? Always lots of stuff to learn whether this is a hobby or an occupation.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

To take care of Fe deficiency, probably I will throw in bunch of nails Just kidding
Gardeneer

Believe it or not, my Dad swears by the technique in order to make hot peppers even hotter.

No idea if it is just a myth or real, but I can attest to the fact that the year he forced me to try it, we got the gosh darnoodley hottest hot peppers I ever grew. Our jalapenos were almost as hot as the super hots. Of course we had a heat wave/drought that year too, and I also experimented with silicone sand. And the garden was super rich with cow chicken rabbit and green manures. So could have been anything really. Still my Dad swears by it. I am not sure I believe it. A bit more skeptical than that. But something made those Jalapenos super hot. Even the normally mild banana peppers were as hot as a normal jalapeno.

ps I just thought to add, My experiment with silicone sand turned out a complete flop. The idea was that adding sand to my heavy clay loam soil would turn it into a lighter sandy clay loam soil. Also that since my soil base was limestone, the silicone base would be better. Turns out all is does is make bricks.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Iornite can take care of Fe.

As for the organic fertilizer prices I find it aggravating.
It seems all you have to do new days is put organic on something and you can jack the price up.
Some of it is just over the top.

Now I am thinking of a cartoon where a home owner is standing over an intruder he just shot saying.
You will be happy to know you have just been shot with all organic, pesticide, gluten and GMO free home grown ammunition.
Worth

Thanks Worth,
Actually I have been looking into Ironite (1-0-1 granular) and I was wondering how much Fe it contains. In a SfGate site finally got the answer :

Granular Ironite

The standard granulated Ironite plant supplement provides 1 percent nitrogen, no measurable phosphorous and 1 percent potassium, along with 12 percent iron. Apply 1.5 cups per 100 square feet. Ironite Plus granular contains 2 percent iron, plus 12 percent nitrogen 10 percent phosphorus and 10 percent nitrogen. Spread 3 to 9 cups of Ironite Plus per 100 square feet. Water in granular Ironite immediately after spreading to distribute nutrients to the roots.

Looks pretty good, 12% iron.
Then I have been reading about lead and arsenic in it. Jury is divided. But I gather the amount of those when mixed into soil is well below max safety level.
So I am decided to add granular Ironite to take care of the deficiency.
I read somewhere that iron can help the plant to better absorb solar energy. Plus it makes the foliage greener as does magnesium and nitrogen.
So in 2016 I know what to do.
As I mentioned before, I'll add some microbe booster to convert some of the organic matter into nutrients. BTW: the reason for high organic matter in my soil is that I add lots of pine mulch, small nuggets. In a way my raised beds contain a structure like in container mix.

Gardeneer