Endo Inoculated Celebrity Tomato - Page 5

Redbaron · February 13, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Hi Noah,
Yes, MycoGrow should work great. MycoGrow is a product sold by Fungi Perfecti which was founded by Paul Stamets. Paul Stamets is a Mycologist with some pretty impressive credentials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets
Thank you for your question and if you try it, please post back here with your results.

Dutch

I have tried it. Works very well.

amideutch · February 13, 2016

I have been using combination of MycoGrow, Biota Max and Actinovate for the last 5 years with excellent results. I make a dip solution containing all three mixed in a bucket with 1-2 gallons of water in which I dip the seedlings in prior to plant out.

Ami

Dutch · February 13, 2016

Thanks for your input Ami!!!
I consider you as a mentor and myself a protégé (mentee).
Thank you for all your posts!!!
Dutch

NoahYates · February 13, 2016

Do you think it would be a good idea to hydrate my dry germination media (light warrior) with an inoculation of seastart, actinovate, and myco grow in solution? And if I did so would it be necessary to inoculate again during the final transplanting?

Dutch · February 13, 2016

Hi, great question Noah and thanks for asking. I would not add any of them to Light Warrior, nor any other quality germination mix.
Actinovate and MycoGrow need to come in contact with the roots and SeaStart is most effective as a foliar spray.
Dutch
P.S. One of the keys to getting Actinovate and MycoGrow to form a relationship with the host roots is to keep the P in NPK very low.

amideutch · February 14, 2016

Quote:

Do you think it would be a good idea to hydrate my dry germination media (light warrior) with an inoculation of seastart, actinovate, and myco grow in solution? And if I did so would it be necessary to inoculate again during the final transplanting?

For me Fox Farms Light Warrior is one of the best growing mediums for seedlings bar none. Unfortunately I can no longer order it through the post. What I did was start my seeds in Hydro-farms Jump Start peat pellets and once the seedlings got their first true leaves I would transplant them into 4 inch cow pots using Light Warrior as the growing medium. Why Cowpot's, because they are made of cow dung which biodegades once they are planted in grow medium and there is no transplant shock.

To answer your question Light Warrior already comes inoculated with mycos' and other effective microorganisms so there is no need to inoculate. Once you get ready to plant out I would inoculate the seedlings with myco's and what ever else you choose to use.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...hlight=Cowpots

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...hlight=Cowpots

Ami

NoahYates · February 14, 2016

Thank you all for the feedback. I will be growing a pretty large number of tomatoes this season and I am trying to keep the budget down as much as possible. My plan was to feed my plants as inexpensively as possible with 10-10-10 and miracle gro tomato food 18-18-21. However, I understand that highly available phosphates interfere with the flourishing of these microbiota. So my question is do you think it would be worth it to I replace the synthetics with texas tomato food and tomato tone and keep the probiotics (a vastly more expensive route), or just opt out of the probiotic inoculation and apply synthetics? I would love to be able to use the probiotics AND synthetics...

Dutch · February 14, 2016

Hi Noah,
For the seedlings in the greenhouse, I typically use synthetics. "Miracle-Gro" Water Soluble and "Lilly Miller" UltraGreen both sell a 24-8-16 water soluble synthetic fertilizer. Walmart as the the 5 lb box for under ten dollars. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Miracle-Gr...16888932#about. For seedling use it at less then quarter strength which would translate to a rate of 6-2-4. Quarter strength is the max and initial feeding should be half that! Please bear in mind that I am using the synthetic fertilizer on plants in a green house environment only. Thanks for posting.
Dutch

NoahYates · February 14, 2016

I have some neptune's harvest fish and seaweed blend that I was going to use in con★★★★★★★★ with the seastart foliar spray and a few drenches of light AACT (with only my homemade worm castings and molasses) until they are ready to transplant. It is at this point I was planning to introduce synthetics along with continued applications of worm tea... From what I gather it appears I can use an extremely dilute solution of miracle gro tomato fertilizer AND culture probiotic microorganisms!? If I used the 18-18-21 recommended at 1tbsp/gal @ 1/8 strength (2mL/gal) the ratios at 1.25-1.25-2.6 would be low enough not to interfere with colonization. Perhaps I will skip the 10-10-10.

Dutch · February 19, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoahYates

I have some neptune's harvest fish and seaweed blend that I was going to use in con★★★★★★★★ with the seastart foliar spray and a few drenches of light AACT (with only my homemade worm castings and molasses) until they are ready to transplant. It is at this point I was planning to introduce synthetics along with continued applications of worm tea... From what I gather it appears I can use an extremely dilute solution of miracle gro tomato fertilizer AND culture probiotic microorganisms!? If I used the 18-18-21 recommended at 1tbsp/gal @ 1/8 strength (2mL/gal) the ratios at 1.25-1.25-2.6 would be low enough not to interfere with colonization. Perhaps I will skip the 10-10-10.

Hi Noah,
It looks like a good plan to me. That level of ferts should work well with most microorganisms. The worm casting should help boost the N (Nitrogen) slightly.

I have read well over a hundred articles on mycorrhizae and besides keeping the available P (Phosphate) low, the N (Nitrogen) should be somewhat higher because the seedling and young plants will need this to help form a productive relationship with the mycorrhizae.
Dutch

NoahYates · February 19, 2016

Yes, after more reading I have discovered that it is a myth that tomatoes need low nitrogen and high phosphorous values... really they need high nitrogen, some phosphorous, and a lot of potassium. So I have decided to go with the all-purpose formula 24-8-17 with supplemental feedings of magnesium sulfate.

Dutch · March 3, 2016

I think the confusion has come from the loss of bio activity in much of the soil cultivated today. Coming from farm country and having belonged to FFA (Future Farmers of America) as a youth, I understand what has happened. What was taught as scientific knowledge fifty years ago, regarding the fertilization of crops, simply was bad science! This bad science has been handed down and is perpetuated today.

The theory back then was to feed the plants with chemicals and the life in the soil (micros) was totally ignored. This I believe was a major fundamental error and has caused damage to much of today's crop lands. From what I have learned over the years is that we need to "feed the soil and let the soil feed the plants".

When plants are fed a life long diet of chemicals, they don't form a relationship with the microbes in soil and the microbes die off that need this relationship to live and multiply. With depleted numbers of microbes in the soil, we now have "junkie' plants that are dependent on an ever increasing amount of chemicals.

Soil lacking these microbes that have helped sustain plant life on this planet since their origin will not grow healthy crops. Crops in these dying soils will have to be force fed more and more chemicals to be productive and healthy.

Dutch

NoahYates · March 3, 2016

To be honest, I would love to go 100% organic in the future... but I want to make absolutely certain that I get healthy plants--->tomatoes this season in order to multiply my seed stock, which is my main goal this season. I am already compiling a list of soil amendments that I want to add this fall for the 2017 season!!! The soil that I am working with right now is creek bottom land, so the top soil is nice and loamy with a good deal of o-horizon. This season the only amendments I will be using are gypsum, cottonseed meal, and my home-made worm castings..... and I am considering purchasing a little bit of some tomato tone, plant tone, or jobe's organic... or a little of all three.

Dutch · March 3, 2016

Hi Noah,
It looks like you have a good plan.
Thanks for posting.
Dutch

February 13, 2016	#62
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	I have been using combination of MycoGrow, Biota Max and Actinovate for the last 5 years with excellent results. I make a dip solution containing all three mixed in a bucket with 1-2 gallons of water in which I dip the seedlings in prior to plant out. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 13, 2016	#63
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Thanks for your input Ami!!! I consider you as a mentor and myself a protégé (mentee). Thank you for all your posts!!! Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

February 13, 2016	#65
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Hi, great question Noah and thanks for asking. I would not add any of them to Light Warrior, nor any other quality germination mix. Actinovate and MycoGrow need to come in contact with the roots and SeaStart is most effective as a foliar spray. Dutch P.S. One of the keys to getting Actinovate and MycoGrow to form a relationship with the host roots is to keep the P in NPK very low. __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries. Last edited by Dutch; February 13, 2016 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Added Post Script

February 14, 2016	#67
NoahYates Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Kentucky Posts: 156	Thank you all for the feedback. I will be growing a pretty large number of tomatoes this season and I am trying to keep the budget down as much as possible. My plan was to feed my plants as inexpensively as possible with 10-10-10 and miracle gro tomato food 18-18-21. However, I understand that highly available phosphates interfere with the flourishing of these microbiota. So my question is do you think it would be worth it to I replace the synthetics with texas tomato food and tomato tone and keep the probiotics (a vastly more expensive route), or just opt out of the probiotic inoculation and apply synthetics? I would love to be able to use the probiotics AND synthetics... Last edited by NoahYates; February 14, 2016 at 11:47 AM.

February 14, 2016	#68
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Hi Noah, For the seedlings in the greenhouse, I typically use synthetics. "Miracle-Gro" Water Soluble and "Lilly Miller" UltraGreen both sell a 24-8-16 water soluble synthetic fertilizer. Walmart as the the 5 lb box for under ten dollars. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Miracle-Gr...16888932#about. For seedling use it at less then quarter strength which would translate to a rate of 6-2-4. Quarter strength is the max and initial feeding should be half that! Please bear in mind that I am using the synthetic fertilizer on plants in a green house environment only. Thanks for posting. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

February 19, 2016	#71
NoahYates Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Kentucky Posts: 156	Yes, after more reading I have discovered that it is a myth that tomatoes need low nitrogen and high phosphorous values... really they need high nitrogen, some phosphorous, and a lot of potassium. So I have decided to go with the all-purpose formula 24-8-17 with supplemental feedings of magnesium sulfate.

March 3, 2016	#72
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	I think the confusion has come from the loss of bio activity in much of the soil cultivated today. Coming from farm country and having belonged to FFA (Future Farmers of America) as a youth, I understand what has happened. What was taught as scientific knowledge fifty years ago, regarding the fertilization of crops, simply was bad science! This bad science has been handed down and is perpetuated today. The theory back then was to feed the plants with chemicals and the life in the soil (micros) was totally ignored. This I believe was a major fundamental error and has caused damage to much of today's crop lands. From what I have learned over the years is that we need to "feed the soil and let the soil feed the plants". When plants are fed a life long diet of chemicals, they don't form a relationship with the microbes in soil and the microbes die off that need this relationship to live and multiply. With depleted numbers of microbes in the soil, we now have "junkie' plants that are dependent on an ever increasing amount of chemicals. Soil lacking these microbes that have helped sustain plant life on this planet since their origin will not grow healthy crops. Crops in these dying soils will have to be force fed more and more chemicals to be productive and healthy. Dutch __________________ "Discretion is the better part of valor" Charles Churchill The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries. Last edited by Dutch; March 3, 2016 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Grammar