Tomato Flavor

Down_South · November 29, 2016

In your opinion, what determines the flavor of tomatoes? Is it the variety, or minerals, compost, dirt, fertilizer, the moon and stars and rotation of the Earth or what?

...a fish head planted below a T plant could be something.

maxjohnson · November 30, 2016

All of those combined. There is the French word terroir, which wine aficionados like to use.

Quote:

terroir
the complete natural environment in which a particular wine is produced, including factors such as the soil, topography, and climate.
the characteristic taste and flavor imparted to a wine by the environment in which it is produced.

My opinion is genetics and minerals influence the most.

Cole_Robbie · November 30, 2016

Water is a big factor in my climate and soil. If it is mostly shut off for the last 30 days or so before ripening, the fruit will be sweeter and taste will be more intense. Last summer, it rained a lot in May, and then none at all in June. Big Beef picked from the tilled garden in the first week of July was the best Big Beef I have ever had and tasted better than a lot of heirlooms. Then it started raining again, and the flavor went downhill the rest of the summer.

Another factor is organic matter content of the soil, which contains humates and also spurs the growth of beneficial bio/fungal life.

Plants also have a finite ability to produce sugar, and once a plant reaches a certain number of fruit, anything beyond that will make the sugars be diluted. The sweetest tomato I have ever had was a Yellow Brandywine that made about 3 tomatoes. By contrast, I've probably gotten 50 pounds off of one giant plant of Taxi, another yellow, but the flavor is mild at best.

Down_South · November 30, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Water is a big factor in my climate and soil. If it is mostly shut off for the last 30 days or so before ripening, the fruit will be sweeter and taste will be more intense. Last summer, it rained a lot in May, and then none at all in June. Big Beef picked from the tilled garden in the first week of July was the best Big Beef I have ever had and tasted better than a lot of heirlooms. Then it started raining again, and the flavor went downhill the rest of the summer.

Another factor is organic matter content of the soil, which contains humates and also spurs the growth of beneficial bio/fungal life.

Plants also have a finite ability to produce sugar, and once a plant reaches a certain number of fruit, anything beyond that will make the sugars be diluted. The sweetest tomato I have ever had was a Yellow Brandywine that made about 3 tomatoes. By contrast, I've probably gotten 50 pounds off of one giant plant of Taxi, another yellow, but the flavor is mild at best.

This makes since with peppers too. When ever I starved my jalapeno's it would concentrate the flavors....as well as the heat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxjohnson

All of those combined. There is the French word terroir, which wine aficionados like to use.

My opinion is genetics and minerals influence the most.

See now that's what I was thinking. For my spring bed I'm adding a bag of Minerals Plus in hoping it will add something, that earthy flavor that I love.

Gardeneer · November 30, 2016

I have recently read that a soil rich in Potassium can make tomatoes sweeter. Specifically they have mentioned wood ash which is very rich in Potassium among other things. So this coming year My garden will be generously amended with wood ash.
It make sense to me that too much water may dilute the flavor.

Genetics is also a big factor. In another thread there has been a discussion on yellow/orange tomatoes that generally are sweeter than red varieties.

b54red · November 30, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Down_South

This makes since with peppers too. When ever I starved my jalapeno's it would concentrate the flavors....as well as the heat.

See now that's what I was thinking. For my spring bed I'm adding a bag of Minerals Plus in hoping it will add something, that earthy flavor that I love.

If you are looking for that rich earthy flavor then you need to try some of the black varieties like JD's Special C Tex, Spudakee, ISPL, Black Krim, and Berkely Tie Dye Pink. The only problem with them is they tend to split and taste weak when it is rainy and cool but I doubt that will be a major problem where you live. Another benefit of some of the black varieties is that their flavor is enhanced by hot dry weather and many of them like ISPL will set in those conditions when others just quit. I added a lot of potash to my soil a few years ago and it did sweeten the tomatoes somewhat and increased production a bit also. I put a 20 lb bag of greensand in each of my larger beds.

Bill

Down_South · November 30, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by b54red

If you are looking for that rich earthy flavor then you need to try some of the black varieties like JD's Special C Tex, Spudakee, ISPL, Black Krim, and Berkely Tie Dye Pink. The only problem with them is they tend to split and taste weak when it is rainy and cool but I doubt that will be a major problem where you live. Another benefit of some of the black varieties is that their flavor is enhanced by hot dry weather and many of them like ISPL will set in those conditions when others just quit. I added a lot of potash to my soil a few years ago and it did sweeten the tomatoes somewhat and increased production a bit also. I put a 20 lb bag of greensand in each of my larger beds.

Bill

The black Krim was on my wish list but got bumped by Carbon. Greensand is something interesting. I'll look for it at my local nurseries. Thank you.

Chris24 · December 5, 2016

Genetics, what you feed them, a little bit of stress later in growing.

Salt for eating can not be overlooked, it can bring them to another level.

BigVanVader · December 5, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I have recently read that a soil rich in Potassium can make tomatoes sweeter. Specifically they have mentioned wood ash which is very rich in Potassium among other things. So this coming year My garden will be generously amended with wood ash.
It make sense to me that too much water may dilute the flavor.

Genetics is also a big factor. In another thread there has been a discussion on yellow/orange tomatoes that generally are sweeter than red varieties.

When I was a kid all the old timers burned fall leaves on the garden then tilled the ashes in. I never did it because I read it can significantly alter Ph, but I know lots of people still do it.

Jarrod King · December 5, 2016

http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/docum...matoFlavor.pdf

Among other things-
"Sulfur is especially important because this nutrient forms organic compounds in
the plant that gives flavor to vegetables."

Down_South · December 5, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod King

http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/docum...matoFlavor.pdf

Among other things-
"Sulfur is especially important because this nutrient forms organic compounds in
the plant that gives flavor to vegetables."

An interesting article. The use of "brackish" water makes some sense as well.

ilex · December 9, 2016

In this order : genetics - water - food (soil) - weather

December 11, 2016

In my opinion, things like sunlight (the kinds and amounts of light), copper, nitrogen, potassium, calcium, sodium, chlorine, zinc, magnesium, sulfur, iron and manganese can affect taste (the levels of each mineral). Genetics, in my opinion is a big factor, but I believe how acclimatized the tomato is to your environment (especially the soil, light and humidity/aridity) is just as big of a factor. How much you water, I think is a big factor. I think pests and diseases are also factors. Plants growing nearby, I believe, are also factors. I've heard planting basil near tomatoes improves the taste of tomatoes (I haven't verified this, but it sounds cool). I think soil microbes can affect taste. I think the kind of soil can affect taste, dramatically.

Down_South · December 11, 2016

Would adding a mixture of rock dust and humic acid help?

Worth1 · December 11, 2016

I'm a little put off by the rock dust.
Not that it doesn't work but what rock dust what kind of rock and from where.
I would suggest where we live would be to add decomposed granite.

Why because good rock dust is glacial rock dust.
Decomposed granite is more or less the same thing it comes from the granite quarries out west.

If you need a bunch and have a truck go get a yard of it.
The nurseries will rob you blind.
I think I paid something like $35 a yard some time ago.
The natural gardener wanted like $10 cubic foot if that much.
To break it down that would have been $270 a square yard in the bag.

I have no idea or remember where you live in Austin or if you grow in raised beds containers or native soil.
The Austin area is a menagerie of soils depending on where you live.

As for potassium AKA potash it got its name from it being discovered in the ashes of burned potted plants.
It is good stuff but has been over done big time by people thinking if a little does good then a lot does better.
Just a thin dusting on top is all you need just like if a volcano erupted and dumped it from a small ash fall.

That's about all I can babble about now.
Flavor gets better in the mid summer with more heat and less water.

November 29, 2016	#1
Down_South Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 93	Tomato Flavor In your opinion, what determines the flavor of tomatoes? Is it the variety, or minerals, compost, dirt, fertilizer, the moon and stars and rotation of the Earth or what? ...a fish head planted below a T plant could be something. __________________ ~Aaron

November 30, 2016	#5
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,924	I have recently read that a soil rich in Potassium can make tomatoes sweeter. Specifically they have mentioned wood ash which is very rich in Potassium among other things. So this coming year My garden will be generously amended with wood ash. It make sense to me that too much water may dilute the flavor. Genetics is also a big factor. In another thread there has been a discussion on yellow/orange tomatoes that generally are sweeter than red varieties. __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

December 5, 2016	#8
Chris24 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: New Zealand Posts: 17	Genetics, what you feed them, a little bit of stress later in growing. Salt for eating can not be overlooked, it can bring them to another level. __________________ Chris.

December 11, 2016	#13
shule1 Guest Posts: n/a	In my opinion, things like sunlight (the kinds and amounts of light), copper, nitrogen, potassium, calcium, sodium, chlorine, zinc, magnesium, sulfur, iron and manganese can affect taste (the levels of each mineral). Genetics, in my opinion is a big factor, but I believe how acclimatized the tomato is to your environment (especially the soil, light and humidity/aridity) is just as big of a factor. How much you water, I think is a big factor. I think pests and diseases are also factors. Plants growing nearby, I believe, are also factors. I've heard planting basil near tomatoes improves the taste of tomatoes (I haven't verified this, but it sounds cool). I think soil microbes can affect taste. I think the kind of soil can affect taste, dramatically. Last edited by shule1; December 11, 2016 at 12:58 AM.

December 11, 2016	#14
Down_South Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 93	Would adding a mixture of rock dust and humic acid help? __________________ ~Aaron Last edited by Down_South; December 11, 2016 at 01:31 AM.

November 30, 2016	#3
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Water is a big factor in my climate and soil. If it is mostly shut off for the last 30 days or so before ripening, the fruit will be sweeter and taste will be more intense. Last summer, it rained a lot in May, and then none at all in June. Big Beef picked from the tilled garden in the first week of July was the best Big Beef I have ever had and tasted better than a lot of heirlooms. Then it started raining again, and the flavor went downhill the rest of the summer. Another factor is organic matter content of the soil, which contains humates and also spurs the growth of beneficial bio/fungal life. Plants also have a finite ability to produce sugar, and once a plant reaches a certain number of fruit, anything beyond that will make the sugars be diluted. The sweetest tomato I have ever had was a Yellow Brandywine that made about 3 tomatoes. By contrast, I've probably gotten 50 pounds off of one giant plant of Taxi, another yellow, but the flavor is mild at best.

December 5, 2016	#10
Jarrod King Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 23	http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/docum...matoFlavor.pdf Among other things- "Sulfur is especially important because this nutrient forms organic compounds in the plant that gives flavor to vegetables."

December 9, 2016	#12
ilex Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Spain Posts: 416	In this order : genetics - water - food (soil) - weather

December 11, 2016	#15
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I'm a little put off by the rock dust. Not that it doesn't work but what rock dust what kind of rock and from where. I would suggest where we live would be to add decomposed granite. Why because good rock dust is glacial rock dust. Decomposed granite is more or less the same thing it comes from the granite quarries out west. If you need a bunch and have a truck go get a yard of it. The nurseries will rob you blind. I think I paid something like $35 a yard some time ago. The natural gardener wanted like $10 cubic foot if that much. To break it down that would have been $270 a square yard in the bag. I have no idea or remember where you live in Austin or if you grow in raised beds containers or native soil. The Austin area is a menagerie of soils depending on where you live. As for potassium AKA potash it got its name from it being discovered in the ashes of burned potted plants. It is good stuff but has been over done big time by people thinking if a little does good then a lot does better. Just a thin dusting on top is all you need just like if a volcano erupted and dumped it from a small ash fall. That's about all I can babble about now. Flavor gets better in the mid summer with more heat and less water.