USDA's Seed "Vault(s)"??

[Soilsniffer]

>> It's a shame that the USDA system had to be abused and ruined
>> for everyone.

I don't think that was the case. USDA was never intended for Mr. & Ms. Backyard Gardener. Zman got a LOT of flack last year for acquiring seeds and flaunting his success. A phone call or two later to USDA, they now actually READ those applications now, sending seeds only to those who qualify. I think all Zman accomplished was to get USDA to begin strictly enforcing their policy, which had already been in place.

J

[Granny]

A couple of names to remember:

Gregor Johann Mendel - father of genetics
Luther Burbank - who created:
Fruits

• 113 plums and prunes
• 35 fruiting cacti
• 16 blackberries
• 13 raspberries
• 11 quinces
• 11 plumcots
• Ten cherries
• Ten strawberries
• Ten apples
• Eight peaches
• Six chestnuts
• Five nectarines
• Four grapes
• Four pears
• Three walnuts
• Two figs
• One almond

Russet Burbank potatoes


Grains, grasses, forage

• Nine types

Vegetables

• 26 types

Ornamentals

• 91 types

Mendel was a monk. Burbank had only an 8th grade education. Neither of them would have remotely "qualified" for this USDA program.

And Soilsniffer, the United States Department of Agriculture is absolutely intended for Mr. & Mrs. Backyard Gardener. That is why they sponsor the 4H program, the Extension Service and a number of other programs.

As a matter of fact, I suspect that if push comes to shove and somebody really wanted to push the issue, those seeds belong to ALL of us. The USDA certainly can say they are not for sale - they are, after all, public property. If you really wanted to push the issue though, they cannot require a PhD and a research grant.

[carolyn137]

As a matter of fact, I suspect that if push comes to shove and somebody really wanted to push the issue, those seeds belong to ALL of us. The USDA certainly can say they are not for sale - they are, after all, public property. If you really wanted to push the issue though, they cannot require a PhD and a research grant.

******

The issue of public monies supporting the USDA GRIN program has been raised by several folks. The implication of course being that everyone should have access.

But let me repeat again, that about maybe 90-95% of the accessions are worthless old breeding stock, and as I said above, most of the good stuff has been liberated.

A doumented application does not require that someone have a Ph.D it just has to document the past activities and perhaps the past and current associations of that person the way I understand it. Craig and I didn't have to fill out any applications back in the early 90's.

How many other Federal programs do we as private citizens not have access to? We're talking seeds and PC GRIN, but what other Federal agencies give open access to the public at large; Homeland Security, Social Security, Medicare for everyone not based on age?, Bureau of Indian Affairs, HUD, and on and on? If there's a bias against the USDA PC GRIN program I think it might be good to look at other restricted Federal agencies as well.

I don't really want to extend this to a discussion of this or that agency, rather, I'm just noting that not all Federal agencies do give public access while some do.

[Granny]

Carolyn, most of the Federal agencies are required by law to give public access in one way or another to most of the stuff they hold in public trust. Thus you may have to pay a small fee to visit a National Historic Site, but you don't have to prove anything to go.

Social Security is available only to those who have paid into the system. The same is true of Medicare. The Bureau of Indian Affairs programs administers treaties between the US government and various treaty nations. GRIN is a publicly owned collection, as are many of the things that NASA generates, lots of the graphics from old US postage stamps and a ton more. For that matter, so are most of the documents generated by the government - that's why Freedom of Information.

I suspect that the folks that are administering GRIN at the minute are not being co-operative not because they have any legal basis to deny anyone access but simply because nobody has ever pushed the issue.

It is a really good thing if you and Craig liberated a bunch of stuff. They have a bunch of other stuff, though, and access should not be limited to commercial researchers, academics and those with the "correct" credentials.

/just on old, pig-headed ex-government employee that does not like bureaucratic garbage

[LoreD]

I really can't see the purpose of the "backyard gardener" requesting germplasm from the USDA/GRIN. I have fairly easy access to probably a thousand different kinds of extremely tasty tomatoes from all over the world in catalogs or trading. I think almost everything that is worth having is out there or being grown out for distribution by professionals. Added to that number are hundreds of new varieties that are being bred by ordinary people. If I grew a hundred varieties a year I still couldn't keep up.

The reason for the USDA/GRIN is to protect varieties that might be needed for disease resistance, etc.

I can't see the backyard gardener wanting to grow some unknown, possibly bad tasting, and extremely rare tomato.

There are lots of programs tha are paid for by the public but are legally restricted. Send in a form and ask for some biotoxins, anthrax, or missiles and see whether they send you some.

LoreD

[feldon30]

I see what the USDA seed bank is doing as being an effort for mankind, not individuals. There is a lot of research that we are not privy to and I can accept that. The USDA seed bank did their job by making available varieties to Craig, Carolyn, and others to grow out, compare, and then distribute to the public, and that is what has been done with the SSE. Several of the varieties that were "rescued" can now be purchased from Victory Seeds, specifically the Livingston collection.

Even if you know exactly what accessions to ask for, it is likely you will get crossed, misidentified, or old seeds from the USDA seed bank. I see it as a deteriorating film that has been restored and DVDs are available for purchase. Unless I am a film restoration expert who thinks I can do a better job than was done by the people before me, I shall be satisfied with the DVD.

[obispo45]

First and last time I begin a thread @ 4:30AM when I'm all goofy from lack of rest...LOL. Carolyn thanks for your advice and straight talk. Feldon thanks for your eloquence and our shared opinion/belief regarding pepper hybrid "goals". Craig thanks for your incredible and seemingly limitless breadth of knowledge. Tom thanks for the last paragraph you wrote(rest of your post as well),it was a beauty. Granny thanks for sticking to your guns, I'll try not to ever upset you. LoreD thanks for your call it like you see it outlook. Garnet thanks for wishing me luck on my journey. Tomatoadd thanks for not making me feel all alone. Soilsniffer thanks for good background info.

Don't mean to digress...just happy to be giving thanks today. What we thought was a potentially serious health scare with my wife turned out to be O.K. May everyones plants be healthy, there fruit be plentiful and there precip. amount appropriate. Cheers

[garnetmoth]

im a lil tired and didnt read the last few responses, but I have had luck getting from the UC Davis fruit germplasm.

Over at citus.forumup.org, there are a few fig growers, and several of us requested acessions. I requested a few I couldnt find to purchase when I looked for reputable sources.

Now, as a member of SSE, I dont think Ill ever worry about finding figs again! <3


who Tomatopallozaed and Craig's avatared the Smilies?!

[grungy]

Did anyone manage to get out a tomato variety known as Manchester Rival?
Cheers,
Grungy/VAl

[mouse]

Could someone please direct me to a source/vendor for the following:

• Highlander (DV6225)
• Siouxann
• Ohio WR Jubilee (Hoytville 1)
• Ohio Crack Resistant Red
  
• Faribo Jumbo Red
• King's Breeder [Valiant x Ontario]
• Big Red [ 1959, New Jersey, vendor: Hendrickson]
• Dwarf Bush No.506 [Univ. of Argentina]

Many thanks.

m

[dice]

Big Red is still around. I don't know of any
commercial seed vendors that have it, but
I see it on people's grow lists occasionally.

[dokutaaguriin]

Dwarf Bush 506 from
http://www.tomatogrowers.com/early2.htm
506 Bush #2205 (30 seeds) $2.30
Bright red fruit grows on strong vines that reach only about 18 inches tall. Plants are drought tolerant and yield well. Medium-large tomatoes have a mild flavor with a hint of sweetness and are blemish-free. This is a really nice variety in a very compact size. Determinate. 62 days
Jeff

[mouse]

Jeff,

Thank you so very much. Have you grown Alpine and Sheyenne, former bred for Wyoming, latter for N.Dakota, both available from Sandhill Preservation Center, Iowa? [Of course, now that you are in seventh heaven with 2 ghse, you need not worry about such cvs!!]

Also, tied any of the Canadian heritage seeds offered by Jim Ternier at Prairie Gardens, and at Upper Canada Seeds, esp. Montreal Tasty?

Thanks much. Happy tomato growing!

m