Soilless hydroponic operations can still be certified as organic

Rajun Gardener · November 21, 2016

http://www.thepacker.com/news/what%E...dzTT0ifQ%3D%3D

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2016

I hope the new regulations allow for the use of pumps which are made of plastics other than food-safe. Pond pumps and sump pumps are ideal for many types of hydro, but there is no option to purchase them in food-safe plastic models. It's the same with pond liners, plastic flood & drain trays, pipe, hose and fittings. No one is making food safe plastic hydro equipment. It might be possible to accomplish, but the current regulations block out all commercially standard hydro methods and equipment.

AKmark · November 22, 2016

Interesting Cole. I just use shallow well jet pumps, would they be considered usable in the situation you explained?

Cole_Robbie · November 22, 2016

Good question. I think jet pumps are mostly metal, but then how much are they going to go through every tank, hose, fitting, valve, etc and demand that every piece of plastic be stamped "food safe?" PVC pipe isn't "food safe," even though most of us are drinking water that was piped through it. They are going to have to ease up a lot on the plastics restrictions to make organic hydro realistic on a commercial scale.

Worth1 · November 23, 2016

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...qovKq6eXLnlTag

BigVanVader · November 23, 2016

you can use plastic on your rows in organic certified so I don't see why PVC would matter. Plastic mulch has been shown to break down slightly and some gets in the soil. I'm ok with that b/c I cant pull weeds 24/7

I'd add that my local Ag guy does seem biased against hydro. I think they associate hydro with marijuana so it gets a bad rap. Seeing what the growers here have done with hydro set ups is pretty darn amazing, and seems like the best solution in areas prone to diseased soil.

Worth1 · November 23, 2016

The big majority of this stuff is food safe it just isn't stamped food safe.
The there are the food safe devices for transporting hot liquids in factories.
These idiots cant possibly expect people to use that equipment to water a plant.
Some time ago I had the biggest argument with a guy that said you couldn't drink water from PVC pipe.
PVC pipe is stamped and listed as safe for drinking water.
CPVC is used for hot water so it wont get hot and lose shape.
This BS came from years ago when they had problems with it.
The jerks need to do some research and do some cross referencing on plastics and know what these markings mean on pipe and other fittings pumps and so on and what you can use it for.
In short just because it doesn't say food grade stamped in big letters for these people doesn't mean it isn't food safe or drinking water safe.
The other ASTM NSF ASSE and so on say this.
What do they want, food safe for hot liquids high acid or drinking water?

Do they even know that all this goes out the window if the GPM gets to high and eats the inside of the pump or pipe out in time.
Do they know the difference between yellow brass and red brass?
Do they know the different grade of stainless and what it can be used for.
I think not.
But yet they will allow water to go down a ditch to water plants which by the way isn't food safe.

Last but not least they are worried about food safe but yet the stuff going through the system isn't food safe.
Sorry for the rant but this stuff gets on my nerves.

Worth

brownrexx · November 23, 2016

According the NY Times article the biggest objection was in not using soil. Organic gardeners feed and nurture their soil.

As you may know, I am an organic gardener, not a farmer, just a home gardener and I do not grow for sale but it seems to me like they are splitting hairs.

Even some on the Organic Gardening Community forum that I frequent are OK with hydroponics for organically growing produce. They mentioned things like rain falling through possibly polluted air onto our gardens makes them technically not organic and also that produce can become contaminated by bacteria in soil that contains manure so maybe hydroponics would be safer.

I feel that allowing organic growing hydroponically would lessen the amount of pesticides and herbicides sprayed onto conventional fields and that would be a good thing for the Earth.

zipcode · November 23, 2016

Not sure how easy it is to efficiently grow hydro with organic fertilizers, sure sounds more difficult to me than doing it in ground. Did anyone here try?
I don't think they refer to hydro grown tomatoes using chemgrow, or else all of a sudden most food would be labeled organic.

AKmark · November 24, 2016

I have tried some organic fertilizers in my greenhouses, very expensive, and results were just decent. Of note though, I do not have to use insecticides, instead I use parasitic insects to kill unwanted insects, and do not ever have to worry about weed killer either.
Here in AK, many organic leaning growers just use the name "all natural" to avoid the hassle, most people are just fine with that too.

Jimbotomateo · December 23, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKmark

I have tried some organic fertilizers in my greenhouses, very expensive, and results were just decent. Of note though, I do not have to use insecticides, instead I use parasitic insects to kill unwanted insects, and do not ever have to worry about weed killer either.
Here in AK, many organic leaning growers just use the name "all natural" to avoid the hassle, most people are just fine with that too.

Will parasitic insects work outside? . If so I'd like to try them this year.

. Jimbo

November 21, 2016	#1
Rajun Gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Tomato Cornhole Posts: 2,550	Soilless hydroponic operations can still be certified as organic http://www.thepacker.com/news/what%E...dzTT0ifQ%3D%3D

November 23, 2016	#6
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	you can use plastic on your rows in organic certified so I don't see why PVC would matter. Plastic mulch has been shown to break down slightly and some gets in the soil. I'm ok with that b/c I cant pull weeds 24/7 I'd add that my local Ag guy does seem biased against hydro. I think they associate hydro with marijuana so it gets a bad rap. Seeing what the growers here have done with hydro set ups is pretty darn amazing, and seems like the best solution in areas prone to diseased soil. Last edited by BigVanVader; November 23, 2016 at 07:17 AM.

November 23, 2016	#8
brownrexx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 1,420	According the NY Times article the biggest objection was in not using soil. Organic gardeners feed and nurture their soil. As you may know, I am an organic gardener, not a farmer, just a home gardener and I do not grow for sale but it seems to me like they are splitting hairs. Even some on the Organic Gardening Community forum that I frequent are OK with hydroponics for organically growing produce. They mentioned things like rain falling through possibly polluted air onto our gardens makes them technically not organic and also that produce can become contaminated by bacteria in soil that contains manure so maybe hydroponics would be safer. I feel that allowing organic growing hydroponically would lessen the amount of pesticides and herbicides sprayed onto conventional fields and that would be a good thing for the Earth. Last edited by brownrexx; November 23, 2016 at 10:29 AM.

November 22, 2016	#2
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I hope the new regulations allow for the use of pumps which are made of plastics other than food-safe. Pond pumps and sump pumps are ideal for many types of hydro, but there is no option to purchase them in food-safe plastic models. It's the same with pond liners, plastic flood & drain trays, pipe, hose and fittings. No one is making food safe plastic hydro equipment. It might be possible to accomplish, but the current regulations block out all commercially standard hydro methods and equipment.

November 22, 2016	#3
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	Interesting Cole. I just use shallow well jet pumps, would they be considered usable in the situation you explained?

November 23, 2016	#5
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...qovKq6eXLnlTag

November 23, 2016	#9
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Not sure how easy it is to efficiently grow hydro with organic fertilizers, sure sounds more difficult to me than doing it in ground. Did anyone here try? I don't think they refer to hydro grown tomatoes using chemgrow, or else all of a sudden most food would be labeled organic.

November 24, 2016	#10
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	I have tried some organic fertilizers in my greenhouses, very expensive, and results were just decent. Of note though, I do not have to use insecticides, instead I use parasitic insects to kill unwanted insects, and do not ever have to worry about weed killer either. Here in AK, many organic leaning growers just use the name "all natural" to avoid the hassle, most people are just fine with that too.