Pêche de Vigne (Black Boy Peach)

[Medbury Gardens]

This is a common fruit both here and in Lyonnais region of France, but i'm noticing that the fruit is not the same colour as the fruit of my childhood. The photo showing a pile of fruit is the type you only seem to be able to get nowadays but most is whiter again, the other photo is how i remember them, pretty much solid colour. My thinking on this is that the trees you either buy from a nursery or get given have been crossed with other peaches along the line somewhere and because they are not a long lived tree most of the old trees would be long gone, so its going to be hard to find the original strain, unless someone has some trees in a remote area where they cant cross.

Got talking about this subject on FB where a woman said a nursery told her that they start off mostly white and get darker red/purple as they get hard.... really?? Can a fruit tree change colour or is the nurseryman pulling the wool over her eyes?

[loulac]

Every region in France with wineyards will have its own peche de vigne, which explains the differences you have noticed. Peche de vigne has become a vague label, just like oxheart, bull's***, Russian tomato etc. A common point : bury a stone in the soil and you will get the exact variety.
All the best

[Cole_Robbie]

bury a stone in the soil and you will get the exact variety.

Yes, but if you want it to grow well, I'm almost positive you'll need to graft it to a different root stock, typically pear. Peaches are native to China; obviously there must be places they grow wild without being grafted, but as far as I know, all commercial peach production is done on grafted trees.

[loulac]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

as far as I know, all commercial peach production is done on grafted trees.

I quite agree with your statement. The fact is that professional growers have jumped on the present tendency to get back to "natural" fruit and have created an industrial peche de vigne, just as they created a heavily ribbed oxheart when the original cuor de bue is perfectly smooth. In old times vine growers never cared about grafting a peach tree in a vineyard, it grew by itself and was not uprooted when it was not a nuisance. By the way I didn't know they could be grafted on a pear tree. When grafted on a peach tree their life is very short, In my place they are grafted on almond trees or plum trees. Glad to discover new horizons !

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by loulac

Every region in France with wineyards will have its own peche de vigne, which explains the differences you have noticed. Peche de vigne has become a vague label, just like oxheart, bull's***, Russian tomato etc. A common point : bury a stone in the soil and you will get the exact variety.
All the best

This is the problem, a lot people do just that and so many of the trees we see today now have fruit with so little colour, this is because most growers who will plant a BBP often will grow other peaches along side which then cross pollinate, they share stones with others and so on and so on. I will find an old strain soon and when i do ive got an area that i will plant them in, its a dead end road that leads down to a river which only a few fishermen use, there's no other fruit trees within 2km and has a central pivot irrigation system in the paddocks next to it, this jets water out across the road for about 200 metres along, plans are to plant a few down each side of this which will insure the seed remains true to type.

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

bury a stone in the soil and you will get the exact variety.

Yes, but if you want it to grow well, I'm almost positive you'll need to graft it to a different root stock, typically pear. Peaches are native to China; obviously there must be places they grow wild without being grafted, but as far as I know, all commercial peach production is done on grafted trees.

No its quite common here for gardeners to share peach stones and grow there own, they grow just fine just like apples plums and pears will also. 29 out of 30 fruit trees in my orchard are either seed grown or from suckers. I think the commercial fruit tree growers have done great job of convincing people that only grafted trees will grow properly, load of crap, unless you are wanting dwarf trees.

[KarenO]

Originally Posted by Medbury Gardens

No its quite common here for gardeners to share peach stones and grow there own, they grow just fine just like apples plums and pears will also. 29 out of 30 fruit trees in my orchard are either seed grown or from suckers. I think the commercial fruit tree growers have done great job of convincing people that only grafted trees will grow properly, load of crap, unless you are wanting dwarf trees.

load of crap indeed. Not so subtle efforts have been employed to convince the world that nobody can produce a viable true breeding seed or breed a new variety except a handful of seed companies since the beginning of the 20th century. I know few gardeners who save seed and that's a shame.
That dark fruit is the most beautiful peach I have ever seen and the red juice in the canned ones... wow.
I would love to taste those
KarenO

[Medbury Gardens]

They taste so different to any other peach Karen, you ever get a chance to get a tree you should do so.

[Cole_Robbie]

Originally Posted by Medbury Gardens

I think the commercial fruit tree growers have done great job of convincing people that only grafted trees will grow properly, load of crap, unless you are wanting dwarf trees.

It's a function of one's soil. Southern Illinois, where I live, has a clay that is too heavy for peach roots to penetrate. But we have a fairly thriving peach orchard industry, because grafting allows the trees to grow well here. My guess is that it's the same in the state of Georgia, which is famous for its peaches.

[PhilaGardener]

The fancy name is "Terrior"

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

It's a function of one's soil. Southern Illinois, where I live, has a clay that is too heavy for peach roots to penetrate. But we have a fairly thriving peach orchard industry, because grafting allows the trees to grow well here. My guess is that it's the same in the state of Georgia, which is famous for its peaches.

Thats interesting, then again how would seed grown trees go? do people in your area do much growing from stones?

I cant grow stone fruit on my land because during a high rainfall winter, the water table below can get as high as a shovel depth down, we are on alluvial out wash from the alps where water flows close to the surface. Stone fruit dont like the roots sitting in water, thats why i'm growing a few them not far from here.

[Medbury Gardens]

Originally Posted by PhilaGardener

The fancy name is "Terrior"

Certainly no doubt the soil and climate influences the flavours of a wide range of crops to any given region. I dont see this being the reason why a peach variety seems to be losing its flesh colour with each new generation of trees

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by KarenO

load of crap indeed. Not so subtle efforts have been employed to convince the world that nobody can produce a viable true breeding seed or breed a new variety except a handful of seed companies since the beginning of the 20th century. I know few gardeners who save seed and that's a shame.
That dark fruit is the most beautiful peach I have ever seen and the red juice in the canned ones... wow.
I would love to taste those
KarenO

This is why I sometimes use store bought eating beans for seed stock.
Depending on what that bean is.
Some there are no hybrids so to speak.
Like the roman aka cranberry beans and many others.
Or even the store bought habanero peppers.
Pecans that is a toss up as to what you get.
Seems to me if you get one from an orchard that has many good types you will get good types from seed.
Many are even advertised as a cross between X and X pecan.
Worth

[PhilaGardener]

Originally Posted by Medbury Gardens

Certainly no doubt the soil and climate influences the flavours of a wide range of crops to any given region. I dont see this being the reason why a peach variety seems to be losing its flesh colour with each new generation of trees

Agreed - soil and climate do affect fruiting and flavor, but it is likely that this variety of peach is actually a distributed landrace of sorts. (Joseph will like that! ) For folks that don't do grafting, plant a pit (sounds like a new slogan) is easy, and diversity follows.

If you can find some nice trees with great color and taste, those could be preserved as scion wood and grafted onto long lived rootstocks (and perhaps even crossed to further select for flavorable traits).

[loulac]

Originally Posted by PhilaGardener

For folks that don't do grafting, plant a pit (sounds like a new slogan) is easy, and diversity follows.

I quite agree, diversity is likely to follow, just like in Las Vegas you may win or you may lose. When century old vineyards have year after year grown peach trees coming from pits fallen far enough from the trajectory of horses pulling plows you can expect to get the same variety if you plant a pit. Unfortunately it can't be a general rule, grafting is still the safest way to reproduce a variety unless a great great grandfather has left proof that generations of fruit trees have come from stones, pits, pips etc. Besides, if there was no risk of errant pollination in old vineyards it's no longer true in our gardens.