Deep South Tomatoes

[yotetrapper]

Hey, yankee here. Born and raised in western NY state, then spent a decade in IL and in both states I had no problem growing tomatoes. Then I moved to Mississippi!

Next year will be my 4th summer here. The first year I only planted a few tomatoes, late... but the next 3 years I put in around 20 tomato plants, and was lucky if we harvested 20 tomatoes...all told.

We're pretty poor so can't spend a fortune on soil amendments and such, and I expect our soil is poor. Drip irrigation is high on my list of priorities and maybe next year, but I'm not sure.

We live on 60 acres of a mix of hardwoods and pines, if that info helps at all.

Any ideas on how I can obtain a decent harvest without breaking the bank down here?

[imp]

I tried to do a fast search on local ag there in the Oakland area, not much luck excepting historical crops- sugar, cotton and watermelons, and a farm that grows sod. Poor soil has been mentioned briefly.

One way to not spend as much time or money would be to amend the hole you plant in. Or along the row, depending on the crop you want to grow and on water.

Lot of mineral water in the area? Do you know what minerals it is high in testing for?

Your local county ag agent may be a good resource for you as well.

Any cattle/horse operations any where near you? Manure may help, jumping up a compost pile for you to start building up your soil- you can compost a lot of things, Paper, brush trimmings, grass clippings, manures, cardboard, leaves, etc..

[Ann123]

Some varieties do well with only a little of water (dry farming). In the south of France a Farmer (Pascal Poot) has been growing tomatoes without watering for a couple of years. The first years he had a very small harvest. But he keeps, year after year, the seeds from the plants that did well in those dry conditions. That way his plants are adapted to his soil and the dry farming.

[Rajun Gardener]

I wouldn't call your location deep South, you're in zone 7b with an average last frost date of April 21st=April 30th.

Are you starting seeds or buying plants and what date are you putting them in the ground? What soil prep are you doing and what fertilizers are you using?

Give us a little more info and I'm sure someone will give you advise to get some healthy productive plants growing.

[ScottinAtlanta]

I supplement with mulched leaves. A pound of mulched leaves is a goldmine of nutrients and minerals. I mulch around 4000 pounds a year in my chipper, and spread 4-5 inches on all my beds in Nov-Dec. By March, when I plant out, the leaves are becoming the top soil.

Leaves are free. In Atlanta, I just pick up bags of them from the sidewalks before the city compost trucks get them. I would mulch very heavily with tree leaves, and then if you wish, till them into the soil if the soil is compacted or full of roots.

Believe me, the best soil supplement is mulched oak leaves. The more the better - don't be parsimonious. You cannot over-mulch!

[MissS]

I second ScottinAtlanta. Leaves are a gold mine and you have 60 acres of hardwood leaves at your disposal. I don't have that luxury so I also drive around and collect leaves from the curbs in my neighborhood. I chop them and put them in each planting hole about a 50/50 mix of leaves to soil. They will decompose rapidly and plants benefit greatly. If possible add more for a summer mulch of if not add wood chips on top. All of this builds your soil quite quickly. In three years your soil will be much different than it is today.

[jtjmartin]

I love using leaves on top, branches on the bottom!

My garden is pretty dense Virginia clay and water is expensive here. All my new beds are hugelkultur. I dig the beds down 2 -3 feet and fill them with logs, stumps, branches, etc. It is a "slow cook" compost method. The rotting wood breaks up the clay, nourishes all sorts of good soil life, and the wood functions as great sponges that release water through the hot dry summer.

All my materials are free . . . and digging the beds saves me the cost of a gym membership!

Jeff

[yotetrapper]

Thanks everyone. I mostly start my own plants from seed indoors, but have also tried store bought plants, and didn't notice a difference. I have no idea about minerals in the water... we're on city water. I will be getting a soil test done, so that might shed some light.

I do know the biggest cattle producer in the area, but that doesn't help, lol. My eyes bugged out when I saw they had mountains of manure all over, and quickly inquired on getting some. I was told I could have all I want, but that I didn't want to put any on my garden. I was like, "huh?" Apparently, they treat their pastures with a broadleaf herbicide, and that herbicide lives through the digestive process of the cattle, so that the manure contains it. I was told that the manure was great for lawns, but would kill every plant in the garden. So much for that idea, lol.

Well there is definitely no shortage of leaves here, so it sounds like that might be my answer. I actually wasn't sure if leaves were good for the garden or not. Last year I did mulch the plants with leaves. Sounds like I need to get some worked into the soil. Good to know you can't use to many... sounds like I got my work cut out for me once all this Christmas baking is done.

Thanks again everyone.

[agee12]

What varieties of tomatoes did you plant?

[yotetrapper]

I don't remember all what varieties I've tried since moving here, but some that come to mind are better boy, roma, creole, hillbilly, rebel yell, butter and bulls heart, brandywine....

[zipcode]

The first question is what went wrong? Were the plants healthy, spindly, yellowish, diseased, no pollination?
Water and good fertilization is key in a good crop but also in good taste. If that is taken care of, next is diseases and pests, which can be a big problem in certain parts.

[agee12]

I know that I am jumping to a solution here without having all the info, and I agree with what others are saying about amending the soil, but I also want to throw out there succession planting if you are not already doing that.

Growing non-cherry tomatoes in the South during the height of summer gets discussed here quite a bit. Many southern gardeners lament about production shutting down during the hottest months but then it kicks back up in the fall, but it sounds like you are not experiencing that Fall flush and I wonder why.

I am curious to see what your response is to zipcode's post because if your plants start looking worn out during the latter part of the season, I wonder if you would benefit from succession planting or planting tomatoes so that their initial production happens in the August / September timeframe.

P.S.
Full disclosure, I am a novice gardener so my response is more academic than experienced base. Although I have experienced better production in the Fall, I just can't claim that it's been my experience for several seasons.

[yotetrapper]

Well, we'll take this last season as an example. I don't know what date I planted, but we had a dry warm spring here so I would guess it was around mid-April. The plants grew very, very slowly. By June most weren't much more than waist high. Then, during the hot months, they all but seemed to die. We kept watering them, but most of the leaves yellowed and fell off, and tomatoes rottered when green (but not like blossom end rot) and hardly no blossoms were produced. Then in September they bounced back (while, most of them, some did die) and grew all new, bright green leaves, blossomed like crazy and put out tomatoes... unfortunately, an early (well, it seemed early for here, lol) freeze put an end to all that before anything was close to being ripe.

[MikeInCypress]

The secret to growing tomatoes in the south is Daconil. Start spraying the week after you set out your plants. Spray every week and after every rain. That and planting early. Here in Houston I try to have my plants out by the 1st weekend in March. They start ripening the 3rd week in April and are usually done by the 4th of July. Varieties that produce well are Big Beef, Atkinson, 4th of July, Maya & Sions Airdrie Classic, Heidi, "Girl, Girl's Weird Thing", Black Krim, and most of the Dwarf Project Tomatoes. Of course the cherries all do well.

MikeInCypress

[zipcode]

Originally Posted by yotetrapper

Well, we'll take this last season as an example. I don't know what date I planted, but we had a dry warm spring here so I would guess it was around mid-April. The plants grew very, very slowly. By June most weren't much more than waist high. Then, during the hot months, they all but seemed to die. We kept watering them, but most of the leaves yellowed and fell off, and tomatoes rottered when green (but not like blossom end rot) and hardly no blossoms were produced. Then in September they bounced back (while, most of them, some did die) and grew all new, bright green leaves, blossomed like crazy and put out tomatoes... unfortunately, an early (well, it seemed early for here, lol) freeze put an end to all that before anything was close to being ripe.

Was it a rainy summer? Not sure what rotted tomatoes while green would mean besides late blight, but that requires high amount of rain/humidity, which I think shouldn't be the case there. Look online at late blight pics to see if they look the same.
The fact they grew slowly in a decent summer is not good, also I think you planted a tad late, I sometimes plant mid april and I'm in a 'normal' climate (like zone 6). Make sure they have good watering and as people said, improve your soil. The simplest and usually quite cheap is the good old bought manure, but self made compost is also a good complete solution that takes a bit more effort.