Concerns about Copper Fungicide

BigVanVader · June 10, 2016

http://www.regional.org.au/au/asssi/...vanzwieten.htm

This article made me rethink my use of copper. I have a very healthy worm population because I have been feeding the soil for almost 2 years now. I hauled in over 3k pounds of manure last winter, and do so every fall so I certainly dont want to poison my soil with heavy metals and defeat the purpose of doing all that work. Everything I do is based around soil building since that is really the cornerstone of a healthy garden, and since there are several alternatives that work as/more effectively I will no longer use copper fungicide. Not worth the risk for me. To each their own though.

PaulF · June 10, 2016

A good study indicating that the overuse of any chemical can be harmful. We use fungicides only when necessary and then follow label directions. There are other fungicides rather than copper that work, but used sparingly will not cause the problems incurred as indicated in the study in Australia which was in a commercial orchard setting. Always good to be cautious. Thanks for the reminder.

BigVanVader · June 10, 2016

Yeah, I hate to even post these sometimes but I personally had no idea copper was a heavy metal that persist in the soi, or that it can create a toxic environment for worms. I doubt I use it enough to cause those issues, but I'm not willing to risk it either.

hl2601 · February 6, 2018

A Newbie question...what would you use instead especially if you wanted to stay organic?

Labradors2 · February 6, 2018

I try to grow organically and have always dealt with Septoria and Early Blight by mulching, removing lower leaves below the first flowers, and then by removing lower leaves as they became infected with fungal disease. I have been tempted to use copper, but I too have been building up the soil and the earthworm population for many years and I don't want to ruin everything for the sake of a few more tomatoes.......

Linda

ginger2778 · February 6, 2018

I can't live without it. Way too much fungal pressure in humid Florida. Serenade is an organic fungicide, but it just doesn't work as well. Of course, I grow in containers and they are soil and earthworm free. That's because of a different kind of worm, nematodes.
And I use my copper spray at 1/2 of the weakest recommended strength. I might think differently if I needed to build the soil.

BigVanVader · February 6, 2018

I'm using Bacillus amyloliquefaciens now. Haven't been using it long enough to give a solid recommendation, but I'm using it exclusively & from the start this year and will know if it works. I'm also growing mostly hybrid commercial types and landrace varieties. I've decided that instead of fighting so hard to keep my weak and disease prone heirloom tomatoes alive I will let nature take its course with only minor help from me. Only the strong survive

https://learningstore.uwex.edu/Assets/pdfs/A4114-03.pdf

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VXQG23O...a-311792278991

sjamesNorway · February 7, 2018

In Norway there are no copper fungicides available to hobby gardeners, and professionals must be certified (after taking courses) to use most plant protection products. For hobby gardeners there is one fungicide for gray mold called Teldor Hobby, some pyrethrine insecticides, and another insecticide called Calypso Garden (tiakloprid), which I've only used on raspberry bushes. So I have no alternative but to follow Linda's (Labradors2) tomato plant procedure, "...mulching, removing lower leaves below the first flowers, and then by removing lower leaves as they became infected with fungal disease." So far this has worked very well for me.

Steve

ps: inoculants aren't readily available here, either.

hl2601 · February 7, 2018

Thanks BVV for those links.

loulac · February 8, 2018

Copper in recommended doses is not toxic but as it will stay in the earth concentration can become very high. Bordeaux vineyards have been using it for nearly a century and some have huge problems. If we want to leave a clean earth to our children we should think twice before spraying it as long as other substances are efficient and biodegradable.

Cole_Robbie · February 8, 2018

Bleach at low concentrations can be effective, see b54red's thread about it. I have used hydrogen peroxide with success, however it is not cost-effective for more than a few plants.

I think a lot of the organic approaches to fungicide have to do with changing the ph on the leaf surface, creating an unfavorable environment for the disease to grow. Diluted milk is one treatment that comes to mind.

June 10, 2016	#1
BigVanVader Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Greenville, South Carolina Posts: 3,099	Concerns about Copper Fungicide http://www.regional.org.au/au/asssi/...vanzwieten.htm This article made me rethink my use of copper. I have a very healthy worm population because I have been feeding the soil for almost 2 years now. I hauled in over 3k pounds of manure last winter, and do so every fall so I certainly dont want to poison my soil with heavy metals and defeat the purpose of doing all that work. Everything I do is based around soil building since that is really the cornerstone of a healthy garden, and since there are several alternatives that work as/more effectively I will no longer use copper fungicide. Not worth the risk for me. To each their own though.

June 10, 2016	#2
PaulF Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brownville, Ne Posts: 3,295	A good study indicating that the overuse of any chemical can be harmful. We use fungicides only when necessary and then follow label directions. There are other fungicides rather than copper that work, but used sparingly will not cause the problems incurred as indicated in the study in Australia which was in a commercial orchard setting. Always good to be cautious. Thanks for the reminder. __________________ there's two things money can't buy; true love and home grown tomatoes.

February 7, 2018	#8
sjamesNorway Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Norway Posts: 1,049	In Norway there are no copper fungicides available to hobby gardeners, and professionals must be certified (after taking courses) to use most plant protection products. For hobby gardeners there is one fungicide for gray mold called Teldor Hobby, some pyrethrine insecticides, and another insecticide called Calypso Garden (tiakloprid), which I've only used on raspberry bushes. So I have no alternative but to follow Linda's (Labradors2) tomato plant procedure, "...mulching, removing lower leaves below the first flowers, and then by removing lower leaves as they became infected with fungal disease." So far this has worked very well for me. Steve ps: inoculants aren't readily available here, either. Last edited by sjamesNorway; February 7, 2018 at 03:39 AM.

February 6, 2018	#4
hl2601 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Metro Denver Posts: 767	A Newbie question...what would you use instead especially if you wanted to stay organic?

February 6, 2018	#5
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,895	I try to grow organically and have always dealt with Septoria and Early Blight by mulching, removing lower leaves below the first flowers, and then by removing lower leaves as they became infected with fungal disease. I have been tempted to use copper, but I too have been building up the soil and the earthworm population for many years and I don't want to ruin everything for the sake of a few more tomatoes....... Linda

February 6, 2018	#6
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	I can't live without it. Way too much fungal pressure in humid Florida. Serenade is an organic fungicide, but it just doesn't work as well. Of course, I grow in containers and they are soil and earthworm free. That's because of a different kind of worm, nematodes. And I use my copper spray at 1/2 of the weakest recommended strength. I might think differently if I needed to build the soil.

February 8, 2018	#10
loulac Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: France Posts: 554	Copper in recommended doses is not toxic but as it will stay in the earth concentration can become very high. Bordeaux vineyards have been using it for nearly a century and some have huge problems. If we want to leave a clean earth to our children we should think twice before spraying it as long as other substances are efficient and biodegradable.

February 8, 2018	#11
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Bleach at low concentrations can be effective, see b54red's thread about it. I have used hydrogen peroxide with success, however it is not cost-effective for more than a few plants. I think a lot of the organic approaches to fungicide have to do with changing the ph on the leaf surface, creating an unfavorable environment for the disease to grow. Diluted milk is one treatment that comes to mind.