Afew questions about breeding

xellos99 · May 4, 2019

Sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, I was not sure where to ask.

I am a total beginner and not looked far into this as of yet but I have a few questions if anyone wants to reply.

Lets say you have a small number of an old OP variety and you want to selectively breed them or improve them so that the seeds you have in following generations are better or more suited to your location.

How would you go about this ?

Pick the best two plants of them all and breed them together and grow out the seeds and continue to do the same each year.

Pick the best plant and self pollinate it and grow the seeds out and keep doing that instead.

Or is there another option or possibly no improvement can be made on a small scale with only 15 - 20 plants to work with each year.

bower · May 4, 2019

What you're talking about is not a breeding project but it is a selection project. We had a really interesting thread in General Discussion forum last year iirc, about this exactly... if large numbers of plants are grown you can indeed select for better stock.
If you only have a few seeds, I would grow them out first, and save seeds from every plant. Bulk them together for a bigger growout so that you can select with maximum variation, would be the usual approach.. For a home gardener though, you might want to save seeds separately from any plant that is outstanding in the bunch, and then focus on those if you can only manage a smaller growout of 20 plants or so.

ContainerTed · May 4, 2019

I would agree with Bower. First grow out for a working bunch of seeds. Make sure to keep some of the original so a single event will not leave you without any more seeds. I also agree that you should save seeds separately from each plant. Bag blooms or shake the blooms to make sure they are self pollinated.

Now, I also agree that what you want to do is selection for best traits, and those will be for your area because environment does make a difference. Remember, you are trying to select for a plant that loves it where you grow your garden.

My last thought is what is the name of the variety you will be working with?? Someone near you might have already done some work on it. Or maybe someone in a similar environment has done some selections to help the plant do better. If it's a family heirloom, you may want to form a team and work together.

Lastly, don't be shy about asking questions. There's lots of experience and lots of folks who would love to help.

Good luck on your adventure. Keep us informed now that you have our attention.

xellos99 · May 4, 2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by bower

What you're talking about is not a breeding project but it is a selection project. We had a really interesting thread in General Discussion forum last year iirc, about this exactly... if large numbers of plants are grown you can indeed select for better stock.
If you only have a few seeds, I would grow them out first, and save seeds from every plant. Bulk them together for a bigger growout so that you can select with maximum variation, would be the usual approach.. For a home gardener though, you might want to save seeds separately from any plant that is outstanding in the bunch, and then focus on those if you can only manage a smaller growout of 20 plants or so.

Can only manage 15 - 20 per year. Will try to find it tomorrow, almost midnight here but thanks for the reply

xellos99 · May 4, 2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I would agree with Bower. First grow out for a working bunch of seeds. Make sure to keep some of the original so a single event will not leave you without any more seeds. I also agree that you should save seeds separately from each plant. Bag blooms or shake the blooms to make sure they are self pollinated.

Now, I also agree that what you want to do is selection for best traits, and those will be for your area because environment does make a difference. Remember, you are trying to select for a plant that loves it where you grow your garden.

My last thought is what is the name of the variety you will be working with?? Someone near you might have already done some work on it. Or maybe someone in a similar environment has done some selections to help the plant do better. If it's a family heirloom, you may want to form a team and work together.

Lastly, don't be shy about asking questions. There's lots of experience and lots of folks who would love to help.

Good luck on your adventure. Keep us informed now that you have our attention.

Gardeners Delight using glasshouse.

I know, not very original but they seem more cold tolerant than many other varieties. It is dipping to 37 F at night here now and all my Sungolds have turned a purple hue and look like they are hating it.
The GD are bright green still and look completely unaffected by the cold snap.

I do know other local growers but they have their own favourite varieties that they grow year after year and they believe in those and im not sure they would want to do a project.

May 4, 2019

I remember the big ad in the Thompson and Morgan catalogue when they first offered Gardener's Delight. They were really excited about it. Of course I bought it. No success with it. I tried again a number of years later, still without success. It certainly doesn't like my conditions.

Good to know it's doing well in Wales.

xellos99 · May 5, 2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDiane

I remember the big ad in the Thompson and Morgan catalogue when they first offered Gardener's Delight. They were really excited about it. Of course I bought it. No success with it. I tried again a number of years later, still without success. It certainly doesn't like my conditions.

Good to know it's doing well in Wales.

I tried it outdoors twice and did badly.

But in a glasshouse they grow 8 - 9 ft every year and the trusses get new growth and the whole plant goes into a wild fast growing mess if not controlled.

It is said that our weather is a lot like Seattle so I would have thought where you are would be ok in a hoop house or glasshouse.

I would not bother outdoors, its a dead loss. You need to be further south by about 400 KM

bower · May 5, 2019

I've grown Gardener's Delight in glasshouse here. It does sound like they're adapting to your early spring conditions well, if they look better than Sungold. (Don't worry they'll recover from a bit of purple if it's just the cold).

May 4, 2019	#1
xellos99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: wales uk Posts: 236	Afew questions about breeding Sorry if this is in the wrong part of the forum, I was not sure where to ask. I am a total beginner and not looked far into this as of yet but I have a few questions if anyone wants to reply. Lets say you have a small number of an old OP variety and you want to selectively breed them or improve them so that the seeds you have in following generations are better or more suited to your location. How would you go about this ? Pick the best two plants of them all and breed them together and grow out the seeds and continue to do the same each year. Pick the best plant and self pollinate it and grow the seeds out and keep doing that instead. Or is there another option or possibly no improvement can be made on a small scale with only 15 - 20 plants to work with each year.

May 4, 2019	#3
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	I would agree with Bower. First grow out for a working bunch of seeds. Make sure to keep some of the original so a single event will not leave you without any more seeds. I also agree that you should save seeds separately from each plant. Bag blooms or shake the blooms to make sure they are self pollinated. Now, I also agree that what you want to do is selection for best traits, and those will be for your area because environment does make a difference. Remember, you are trying to select for a plant that loves it where you grow your garden. My last thought is what is the name of the variety you will be working with?? Someone near you might have already done some work on it. Or maybe someone in a similar environment has done some selections to help the plant do better. If it's a family heirloom, you may want to form a team and work together. Lastly, don't be shy about asking questions. There's lots of experience and lots of folks who would love to help. Good luck on your adventure. Keep us informed now that you have our attention. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

May 4, 2019	#2
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	What you're talking about is not a breeding project but it is a selection project. We had a really interesting thread in General Discussion forum last year iirc, about this exactly... if large numbers of plants are grown you can indeed select for better stock. If you only have a few seeds, I would grow them out first, and save seeds from every plant. Bulk them together for a bigger growout so that you can select with maximum variation, would be the usual approach.. For a home gardener though, you might want to save seeds separately from any plant that is outstanding in the bunch, and then focus on those if you can only manage a smaller growout of 20 plants or so.

May 4, 2019	#6
LDiane Guest Posts: n/a	I remember the big ad in the Thompson and Morgan catalogue when they first offered Gardener's Delight. They were really excited about it. Of course I bought it. No success with it. I tried again a number of years later, still without success. It certainly doesn't like my conditions. Good to know it's doing well in Wales.

May 5, 2019	#8
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	I've grown Gardener's Delight in glasshouse here. It does sound like they're adapting to your early spring conditions well, if they look better than Sungold. (Don't worry they'll recover from a bit of purple if it's just the cold).