What's the difference between a determinate and a bush tomato?

[TomatoDon]

I've read that determinate and bush varieties are the same, except that some people use the term "bush" when referring to a determinate variety. Does a bush produce longer than a determinate? I'm thinking of the Better Bush (same size and taste fruit as an indeterminate Better Boy?) Bush Goliath (same size and flavor as an indeterminate Goliath?) and Bella Rosa, Dixie Red, Amelia, Red Deuce, etc. which are considered determinates.

Does a dwarf fit in a separate category, or is it also considered to be a bush or determinate? Or is a dwarf totally different? I've never seen a plant here labeled as a "dwarf." Or, are all three considered to be the same, just with different designations?

Will appreciate any answers. Thanks in advance.
Don

[MrBig46]

Bush or determinant tomatoes are grown without breaking out the side shoots (vijans). They have limited (determinant) growth and each shoot ends in a flower. They reach different sizes, but they always only grow to a given size and do not grow any further. Some small bush tomatoes were called "dwarf" and often had that word in their name as well.
Indeterminate tomatoes do not stop growing, they could grow indefinitely if growing conditions allowed. Of course, their growth will be stopped by bad weather, some disease, possibly lack of water, severe drought, high temperatures, etc.

Recently, the term "Dwarf" has been used for all varieties grown and bred in collaboration by Tomatoville members and Patrina Nurset (she did the necessary crossings). These are indeterminate tomatoes that have a shorter (about a third) internode (distance between leaves). These plants are with thicker stems and lower


Vladimír

[TomatoDon]

In simple layman's terms, can "bush" and "determinate" generally be considered as the same thing? Would Better Bush and Amelia both be correct by either term?

[eyolf]

I think "bush" is a kind of imprecise term for a short tomato that seldom exceeds a certain size before offering ripe fruit.

I see potted, fairly large tomato plants with that label in greenhouses. Possibly because they are a little cramped in a 10" or so pot, they seldom get much larger, but they seem to offer a dozen or so ripe tomatoes, often within a couple of weeks of bringing them home. I think most of them have the short internode, rugose-leaf gene.

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[VirginiaClay]

Better Bush is an indeterminate, despite its bushy growth habit. It's one of the tomatoes known as an "indeterminate short internode" type. So are the tomatoes from the Dwarf Tomato Project, as mentioned by MrBig46 above. These plants have a relatively compact, bushy growth habit but are indeterminate. If you do a web search on "indeterminate short internode" tomatoes you'll find more information. For a description related to Better Bush specifically, see here: https://www.parkseed.com/products/be...to-seeds-05338. Better Bush is listed as determinate at a number of sites, but that isn't correct.

Traditionally "bush" has meant determinate and "vining" has meant indeterminate, but the existence of these "indeterminate short internode" tomatoes makes it more complicated than that.

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by VirginiaClay

Better Bush is an indeterminate, despite its bushy growth habit. It's one of the tomatoes known as an "indeterminate short internode" type. So are the tomatoes from the Dwarf Tomato Project, as mentioned by MrBig46 above. These plants have a relatively compact, bushy growth habit but are indeterminate. If you do a web search on "indeterminate short internode" tomatoes you'll find more information. For a description related to Better Bush specifically, see here: https://www.parkseed.com/products/be...to-seeds-05338. Better Bush is listed as determinate at a number of sites, but that isn't correct.

Traditionally "bush" has meant determinate and "vining" has meant indeterminate, but the existence of these "indeterminate short internode" tomatoes makes it more complicated than that.

There is also the semi-determinate, that I will nor even try to classify, because I have not observed such plants. Some claim that at times they will have a terminal flower bud, and at other times, will not.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by Tormato

There is also the semi-determinate, that I will nor even try to classify, because I have not observed such plants. Some claim that at times they will have a terminal flower bud, and at other times, will not.

Hi