Green 'n Gold

**Tom Wagner** · January 31, 2008

Yet another variety of tomato that I bred up and forgot about. I had talked with Ken Ettlinger of the Long Island Seed Project and he reminded me that he obtained tomato seed from me near 25 years ago. His website write up was interesting in the fact that Ken thought that Green 'n Gold was a sister line of Green Zebra. No where close. The closest relative that is out there is Lime Green Salad also from my breeding work. The fruit is described as green inside, yellow on the outside.

I could find the pedigree on this line, but that will come when I dig through a mountain of boxes. I have kept everything relating to my crosses over the last 55 years and the boxes of documents, old seed, seed request letters, pedigree books, numbers beyond counting.

It would be fun to compile a directory of everyone who requested those mimeographed copies of the Tater Mater Seeds Catalog. It would be a historical document of who was who then in tomato collection.

Since this variety is a yesteryear tomato to me, I wondered if anyone has grown it?

Tom Wagner

**carolyn137** · January 31, 2008

Since this variety is a yesteryear tomato to me, I wondered if anyone has grown it?

*****

What yesteryear means to you and what most of the info here is about is different. Heck you're not that old. LOL

Tom, I picked up some SSE Yearbooks at random off the floor and it was listed in the mid 90's up to 2002 by a few listed members and I'm sure inbetween, and two folks list it in the 2007 Yearbook, and all folks list it as Gold 'n Green, not the reverse as you have it.

One lister says he got his seeds from CV Lon in 1993, but off hand I don't remember what company that referred to.

Your name is not associated with those listings for Gold 'n Green that I saw and I guess all these years I just whizzed by it when reading and didn't know it was one you had bred.

Had their sources mentioned your name they would have repeated it, but apparently they didn't have that info to start with. The one person listing it has consistently listed it, I'm sure, from 1994 onwards and he always is meticulous in citing background info.

Did Ken distribute it and if so what name did he use?

Tomaddict · January 31, 2008

This thread caught my eye because I thought it was about a variety I had grown. Looked it up in my records and (relearned that) what I had grown was Green and Yellow instead. Good thing I keep written records becuz the sieve on my shoulders ain't what it used to be! (The holes seem to have gotten larger.)

I looked in the Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition for CV Lon and it is not there, so it is/was a now-defunct commercial source. My guess is that it refers to the Long Island Seed Project.

**carolyn137** · January 31, 2008

I looked in the Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition for CV Lon and it is not there, so it is/was a now-defunct commercial source. My guess is that it refers to the Long Island Seed Project.

****

I have a much earlier Garden Seed Inventory.......somewhere, LOL and I'm not going to go looking for it.

I don't remember that Ken had a website back then, he just circulated a paper listing, but I suppose if one wanted to call it a company, as in Lon....meaning Long Island Seed Company, that might work.

Craig would know b'c he interacted with Ken much more than I did and Craig's memory is beyond belief.

**Tom Wagner** · January 31, 2008

Yesteryear because 25 years is to some younger folks just that. I am beginning a series of my own notes relating to my work of yesteryear (so to speak) and I am submitting a rough outline of my words in quotes with additional quotes as the source of my notes.

Quote:

People ask me all the time, "Where can I find your tomato creations?" I talked with Ken Ettlinger of the Long Island Seed Project (LISP) the other day and he reminded me that he obtained seed from me years ago from my Tater-Mater Seed catalog and that was from the days of 1983 to 1986. I forget who got seed from me in those days and I have so many varieties floating around in the seed industry that even I loose track of them.

Case in point is the "Green 'n Gold" tomato variety that originated out of my Dwarf Green Flesh Mix. I probably had a name for this one but Ken gave it his name. That is fine with me. I ran across the name Green 'n Gold before but didn't think that it was one of my creations. After talking with Ken, I went to his website to read this blurb:

Quote:

The green (inside) and gold (outside) is, I suspect, a sister line of Green Zebra, produced from a mixture of dwarf green fleshed tomatoes that I obtained from Tater Mater Seeds many years ago. I called it "Green 'n Gold" when USDA strongly suggested that I place the names of every cultivar that I included in the packet of my "Dwarf Campion Tomato Blend" (as well as every other seed blend that I marketed).

No, Ken, it is not a sister line of Green Zebra, but is more closely related to a tomato called Lime Green Salad that I sent to Tim Peters of Peters Seed Research in Oregon.(Tim renamed this too) I may not even have the Green 'n Gold in my collection as viable seed anymore, so my hat is off to Ken for maintaining it.

Ken has an experimental use of seed at his site, so that may be a reason for a lack of wide-spread dispersal of the "Green 'n Gold" within the larger community.

Tom Wagner

rxkeith · January 31, 2008

tom,

that would be the perfect tomato colorwise for greenbay packer fans. packer backers are the most loyal of fans in the nfl. you may have a market for it here in wisconsin and western u.p. michigan.

keith

**carolyn137** · January 31, 2008

Ken has an experimental use of seed at his site, so that may be a reason for a lack of wide-spread dispersal of the "Green 'n Gold" within the larger community.

*****

I didn't go back further than 1994 in the Yearbooks but it seems Bill Minkey was the first to list it and if CV Lon was Ken's name back then, then I wonder how it got changed from what you know as Green 'n Gold to all the listings in the Yearbooks being Gold 'n Green.

No, I don't stay up nights thinking about this.

**Tom Wagner** · February 1, 2008

Yes, Carolyn, I do stay up nights thinking about this.

It becomes a very close to the heart thing type of thing when a variety that has been around for 25 years in the public and even longer within the originator's breeding material is not known among our tomato seed ambassadors!

I am getting inquiries about the T-4 and other letter-numbers within the SSE members collections, so it seems again, that I have numerous lines floating about in ever increasing disarray of tomatoes without historical convocations. Much of what I put into my original Tater Mater Seed catalog is rarely well known.

A bit tongue in cheek, but the members here form a convention of the many mystical spiritual paths and faiths who desire to teach each other and promote fellowship among all esoteric traditions of tomatoes. I am listening for the melody from the Twilight Zone real soon!

Amy Goldman tells me on the phone that many of my tomatoes will be in her new book due out in August. She said she changed the book name again just the other day.
Heirloom Tomatoes will be among the words of her title. There will be some rare information on my tomato work in her book, and for that I am thankful.. Rarely does anyone come to me for information for publications.

Ken Ettlinger's database of tomato varieties stresses the experimental nature of his collection. That was what I did with my initial write up on my varietal development in my catalong. That experimental "share" project of Ken's at least creates an alphabet soup of potential varieties. The closed system inhibits common vernacular of a variety fairly well it seems.however I wonder how many members here participate with Ken???

Tom Wagner

PNW_D · February 1, 2008

Here is the Green and Yellow from Jeff's webiste:

Green and Yellow
Stuffing tomato which is green with orange-yellow stripes when mature; heavy production; very resistant to fungal wilt; good addition to any Green Bay Packer-theme vegetable garden.

WI MI B 96
CV Lon

Raymondo · February 2, 2008

I wouldn't call it participating exactly but I am a member, for want of a better word, of the Long Island Seed Project. That is, I've signed up financially but haven't acted on the offer of seeds that signing up entitles you too. Not yet at any rate.

**carolyn137** · February 4, 2008

I found something interesting today when I looked at the 1996 SSE YEarbook.

Bill Minkey lists Gold n Green and cites Lon93 as his source and says 75 days, bush plant, 2" fruits, bronze gold outside, bright green inside, irregular shape, good flavor.

And in the same Yearbook in the same section he also lists Green and Yellow and Lon as a source, but no year given.

irregular shape, pepper type, yellow with green stripes, beautiful and sweet with good flavor, very productive.

So apprently Ken was offering both Gold n'Green and Green and Yellow at the same time, Bill grew them at the same time, and his descriptions suggest they are different varieties.

Just thought some of you might be interested.

January 31, 2008	#1
Tom Wagner Crosstalk™ Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 8407 18th Ave West 7-203 Everett, Washington 98204 Posts: 1,157	Green 'n Gold Yet another variety of tomato that I bred up and forgot about. I had talked with Ken Ettlinger of the Long Island Seed Project and he reminded me that he obtained tomato seed from me near 25 years ago. His website write up was interesting in the fact that Ken thought that Green 'n Gold was a sister line of Green Zebra. No where close. The closest relative that is out there is Lime Green Salad also from my breeding work. The fruit is described as green inside, yellow on the outside. I could find the pedigree on this line, but that will come when I dig through a mountain of boxes. I have kept everything relating to my crosses over the last 55 years and the boxes of documents, old seed, seed request letters, pedigree books, numbers beyond counting. It would be fun to compile a directory of everyone who requested those mimeographed copies of the Tater Mater Seeds Catalog. It would be a historical document of who was who then in tomato collection. Since this variety is a yesteryear tomato to me, I wondered if anyone has grown it? Tom Wagner

January 31, 2008	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Since this variety is a yesteryear tomato to me, I wondered if anyone has grown it? ***** What yesteryear means to you and what most of the info here is about is different. Heck you're not that old. LOL Tom, I picked up some SSE Yearbooks at random off the floor and it was listed in the mid 90's up to 2002 by a few listed members and I'm sure inbetween, and two folks list it in the 2007 Yearbook, and all folks list it as Gold 'n Green, not the reverse as you have it. One lister says he got his seeds from CV Lon in 1993, but off hand I don't remember what company that referred to. Your name is not associated with those listings for Gold 'n Green that I saw and I guess all these years I just whizzed by it when reading and didn't know it was one you had bred. Had their sources mentioned your name they would have repeated it, but apparently they didn't have that info to start with. The one person listing it has consistently listed it, I'm sure, from 1994 onwards and he always is meticulous in citing background info. Did Ken distribute it and if so what name did he use? __________________ Carolyn

January 31, 2008	#3
Tomaddict Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SW Michigan Posts: 73	This thread caught my eye because I thought it was about a variety I had grown. Looked it up in my records and (relearned that) what I had grown was Green and Yellow instead. Good thing I keep written records becuz the sieve on my shoulders ain't what it used to be! (The holes seem to have gotten larger.) I looked in the Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition for CV Lon and it is not there, so it is/was a now-defunct commercial source. My guess is that it refers to the Long Island Seed Project. __________________ Whatever you are, be a good one. -Abraham Lincoln

January 31, 2008	#4
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I looked in the Garden Seed Inventory 6th edition for CV Lon and it is not there, so it is/was a now-defunct commercial source. My guess is that it refers to the Long Island Seed Project. **** I have a much earlier Garden Seed Inventory.......somewhere, LOL and I'm not going to go looking for it. I don't remember that Ken had a website back then, he just circulated a paper listing, but I suppose if one wanted to call it a company, as in Lon....meaning Long Island Seed Company, that might work. Craig would know b'c he interacted with Ken much more than I did and Craig's memory is beyond belief. __________________ Carolyn

January 31, 2008	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Ken has an experimental use of seed at his site, so that may be a reason for a lack of wide-spread dispersal of the "Green 'n Gold" within the larger community. ***** I didn't go back further than 1994 in the Yearbooks but it seems Bill Minkey was the first to list it and if CV Lon was Ken's name back then, then I wonder how it got changed from what you know as Green 'n Gold to all the listings in the Yearbooks being Gold 'n Green. No, I don't stay up nights thinking about this. __________________ Carolyn

January 31, 2008	#6
rxkeith Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Back in da U.P. Posts: 1,848	tom, that would be the perfect tomato colorwise for greenbay packer fans. packer backers are the most loyal of fans in the nfl. you may have a market for it here in wisconsin and western u.p. michigan. keith

February 1, 2008	#8
Tom Wagner Crosstalk™ Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 8407 18th Ave West 7-203 Everett, Washington 98204 Posts: 1,157	Yes, Carolyn, I do stay up nights thinking about this. It becomes a very close to the heart thing type of thing when a variety that has been around for 25 years in the public and even longer within the originator's breeding material is not known among our tomato seed ambassadors! I am getting inquiries about the T-4 and other letter-numbers within the SSE members collections, so it seems again, that I have numerous lines floating about in ever increasing disarray of tomatoes without historical convocations. Much of what I put into my original Tater Mater Seed catalog is rarely well known. A bit tongue in cheek, but the members here form a convention of the many mystical spiritual paths and faiths who desire to teach each other and promote fellowship among all esoteric traditions of tomatoes. I am listening for the melody from the Twilight Zone real soon! Amy Goldman tells me on the phone that many of my tomatoes will be in her new book due out in August. She said she changed the book name again just the other day. Heirloom Tomatoes will be among the words of her title. There will be some rare information on my tomato work in her book, and for that I am thankful.. Rarely does anyone come to me for information for publications. Ken Ettlinger's database of tomato varieties stresses the experimental nature of his collection. That was what I did with my initial write up on my varietal development in my catalong. That experimental "share" project of Ken's at least creates an alphabet soup of potential varieties. The closed system inhibits common vernacular of a variety fairly well it seems.however I wonder how many members here participate with Ken??? Tom Wagner

February 1, 2008	#9
PNW_D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 961	Here is the Green and Yellow from Jeff's webiste: Green and Yellow Stuffing tomato which is green with orange-yellow stripes when mature; heavy production; very resistant to fungal wilt; good addition to any Green Bay Packer-theme vegetable garden. WI MI B 96 CV Lon __________________ D.

February 2, 2008	#10
Raymondo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Saumarez Ponds, NSW, Australia Posts: 946	I wouldn't call it participating exactly but I am a member, for want of a better word, of the Long Island Seed Project. That is, I've signed up financially but haven't acted on the offer of seeds that signing up entitles you too. Not yet at any rate. __________________ Ray

February 4, 2008	#11
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I found something interesting today when I looked at the 1996 SSE YEarbook. Bill Minkey lists Gold n Green and cites Lon93 as his source and says 75 days, bush plant, 2" fruits, bronze gold outside, bright green inside, irregular shape, good flavor. And in the same Yearbook in the same section he also lists Green and Yellow and Lon as a source, but no year given. irregular shape, pepper type, yellow with green stripes, beautiful and sweet with good flavor, very productive. So apprently Ken was offering both Gold n'Green and Green and Yellow at the same time, Bill grew them at the same time, and his descriptions suggest they are different varieties. Just thought some of you might be interested. __________________ Carolyn