Effective germination of tomatoes, peppers and eggplant - critical parameters

[DonB5750]

Using Epsoma Seed-starting mix here with 24 different heirlooms. Seem to be germinating ok and are out in pots under lights.....except for Mortgage Lifters. Not sure what's up with those. Re-seeded twice now over three week period. Used seeds from two different sources.

[nctomatoman]

tom - nope - they are fine in there. In fact, in the early spring they are outdoors (no greenhouse) and I've had thousands of them make it through temps down in the mid 30s. I've used a double layer of Reemay and had them out at 30.

[Wvabob]

Newbie here and anxious to learn and maybe even contribute in the future.

[Wvabob]

Newbie here and anxious to learn and maybe even contribute in the future.

[TFdaggar03]

We have been growing tomatoes from seed for the past 5 years with moderate success. We read everything that we can get our hands on to try & improve the structure of the plants & overcome the difficulty that I will get to in a moment. What we grow are Heirloom's, Hybrids, determinate & indeterminate's. Our success in the early stages is fine, but as the plants develop further & show promising growth patterns, our nemesis of tall, spindly, leggy stalks becomes evident. Foliage is adequate to the plants size, color is rich green & the overall health of the plant is good.....except for the tall, spindly stalk. We are using fluorescent fixtures w/ Agro lamps. Additionally; the temperature of our growing space is kept between 52-58 degrees, Lastly; within the space is a North facing window directly in front of the plant beds. At this point we are of the opinion that the artificial light source is not producing a quality of light adequate to promote more robust plants at an earlier stage. So the idea that we have been toying with for next season is to take a page from the marijuana growers play-book & switch to full spectrum LED's. 2 questions for the community in closing: First; is anyone else using LED's as a light source & Secondly; based on the limited information that I have posted, does anyone see problems with our current protocol & in your considered opinion, is it a light source issue at all or something else entirely? Please bare with us as we are new & while our intentions are good, tend to ask many questions. Thank you all.

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by TFdaggar03

We have been growing tomatoes from seed for the past 5 years with moderate success. We read everything that we can get our hands on to try & improve the structure of the plants & overcome the difficulty that I will get to in a moment. What we grow are Heirloom's, Hybrids, determinate & indeterminate's. Our success in the early stages is fine, but as the plants develop further & show promising growth patterns, our nemesis of tall, spindly, leggy stalks becomes evident. Foliage is adequate to the plants size, color is rich green & the overall health of the plant is good.....except for the tall, spindly stalk. We are using fluorescent fixtures w/ Agro lamps. Additionally; the temperature of our growing space is kept between 52-58 degrees, Lastly; within the space is a North facing window directly in front of the plant beds. At this point we are of the opinion that the artificial light source is not producing a quality of light adequate to promote more robust plants at an earlier stage. So the idea that we have been toying with for next season is to take a page from the marijuana growers play-book & switch to full spectrum LED's. 2 questions for the community in closing: First; is anyone else using LED's as a light source & Secondly; based on the limited information that I have posted, does anyone see problems with our current protocol & in your considered opinion, is it a light source issue at all or something else entirely? Please bare with us as we are new & while our intentions are good, tend to ask many questions. Thank you all.

My thought is get them outside as quick as possible after germination. These are intended for gardening, right? the temperature fluctuation and air movement makes for a huge difference in the plant growth than babying them under grow lights. I have mine in a greenhouse ( I sell) and I let them wilt continuously on the bench (I spray water over the foliage and don't saturate the media). I want to keep them sturdy and tough so when they go "home" to their new garden they won't keel over with the wind and lack of moisture in the new environment. in your window area also place an oscillating fan to mimic wind movement or gently brush your hand over them several times a day to move them about..it toughens up the stem and makes it sturdier.

[Mike723]

Originally Posted by TFdaggar03

We have been growing tomatoes from seed for the past 5 years with moderate success. We read everything that we can get our hands on to try & improve the structure of the plants & overcome the difficulty that I will get to in a moment. What we grow are Heirloom's, Hybrids, determinate & indeterminate's. Our success in the early stages is fine, but as the plants develop further & show promising growth patterns, our nemesis of tall, spindly, leggy stalks becomes evident. Foliage is adequate to the plants size, color is rich green & the overall health of the plant is good.....except for the tall, spindly stalk. We are using fluorescent fixtures w/ Agro lamps. Additionally; the temperature of our growing space is kept between 52-58 degrees, Lastly; within the space is a North facing window directly in front of the plant beds. At this point we are of the opinion that the artificial light source is not producing a quality of light adequate to promote more robust plants at an earlier stage. So the idea that we have been toying with for next season is to take a page from the marijuana growers play-book & switch to full spectrum LED's. 2 questions for the community in closing: First; is anyone else using LED's as a light source & Secondly; based on the limited information that I have posted, does anyone see problems with our current protocol & in your considered opinion, is it a light source issue at all or something else entirely? Please bare with us as we are new & while our intentions are good, tend to ask many questions. Thank you all.

I have no issues with legginess under my high output t5's except with a few cherry varieties that i attribute to genetics. I don't think LED's would be necessary unless you plan on taking them all the way to fruit indoors (although it sounds like you are?). If you do complete the grow cycle indoors then yes, those old flouros are insufficient.

LED's are effective but you have to purchase a quality setup in excess of $1,000+ to reach the efficacy that standard HID's provide for a quarter of the price. The only problem with HID's (Metal Halide & High Pressure Sodium) is the heat that they produce.. They will most likely need to be air cooled, but then again, with temps 52-58F they would be a welcomed heat source as your current temps are a little too cool.. You should be somewhere between 65-80F during the light cycle, and around 15 degrees cooler during the dark cycle. You could get away with a good HO T5 or T8 setup for vegetative growth, but you'll want at least a 600w HPS for flowering (wattage is determined by the number of plants and size of the space you are growing in).

[Father'sDaughter]

How close are you keeping the lights? I use T8 fluorescents and I have no idea how the compare to the Agro lamps you are using, but I know if I don't keep the bulbs about an inch away from the tops of the plants, they start stretching out in search of light.

[TFdaggar03]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

How close are you keeping the lights? I use T8 fluorescents and I have no idea how the compare to the Agro lamps you are using, but I know if I don't keep the bulbs about an inch away from the tops of the plants, they start stretching out in search of light.

The light source is never more than 1" from the foliage. The Agro tubes are the more antiquated T12 design & have less horsepower than your T8's.

[NM_Dirt_Digger]

Adding to old thread.
I live in NM and it is very dry.
Years ago when my kids were young we had an aquarium, some tropical fish and all the equipment. Lights. water heater, cover etc.
Well that old aquarium makes a great incubator for starting seeds. I just set the bottom tray on some bricks, bring the water level up to about mid tray level and set the heater on the temperature I want. 70 degrees for tomatoes. mid 80's for peppers and eggplant. Works like a charm.

[Rootwad]

sungro metromix360 no longer available now what?

[Yak54]

I've used a product called Magik Moss for many years. Works very well for me. Then there is always Jiffy Mix.

[hovermother22]

I start my seeds on a heat mat. What do I do if some of the tomato seedlings have sprouted in the cells -- which are all connected, by the way, so I cannot separate them -- and others have not? In other words, will it harm the ones that have not sprouted to go under the lights with the ones that have sprouted?

[JRinPA]

I have found it more important to get the sprouted ones under light, rather than wait for the unsprouted ones. The unsprouted are likely near the edge of the mat that does not receive or hold the heat as well.


If the sprouted do not receive light, they will get leggy.



The unsprouted might take a little while more but if they are the same quality seed, they will eventually come up with the heat of the lights alone. Just keep them moistened.



By the same token, if I have peppers and eggplants in the same tray/mat as tomatoes, I keep the tomatoes to the outside. The peppers and eggplant want more heat, in general.



I make my own mix for soil blocks so can't directly comment on quality, but I saw some Pro-Mix at walmarts this spring. $13 for 1 cu ft compressed, I think. I was sort of surprised. Pro-Mix has a top notch rep, I thought, so it was weird finding it next to Miracle Grow.

[Greatgardens]

nctomatoman said: "1. The germination mix - I use fresh soilless mix - my brand of choice is Sungrow's MetroMix 360."

It looks like Sungro no longer sells MetroMix 360. Are you still able to get it, or what are you using as a replacement?