Heirlooms NOT to grow!

[korney19]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Somebody (!) decided to include a packet of Purple Calabash seeds in my MMMM packet last year, and even put it on a list of suggested grow outs for the 2016 swap...

Try it, maybe you will like it!

[NarnianGarden]

I might well live dangerously and grow it one day, just because.

[Worth1]

I liked it but like most all tomatoes, not picky.

Speaking only for myself, I sometimes wonder if it would be helpful to be color blind when judging the taste quality of various tomatoes. I wonder if my prejudice for red tomatoes ("it ain't a tomato if it ain't red") causes me to lower my estimation of the flavors of orange, yellow, GWR, black and other color varieties.

Of the yellow/orange varieties, only KBX and Orange Minske have flavors which are outstanding to me. I wonder if I like them so much because they taste like the best tasting red tomatoes. The other yellow/orange varieties may have subtle flavors I can't detect.

Of the black tomatoes, only Black Krim, Black From Tula, Indian Stripe; and possibly Carbon have a subtle smokey flavor I like. Some people say they have a salty taste instead of a smokey taste. I can't detect salty flavors in anything until it becomes strongly salty so I would never detect a salty flavor in a tomato. We may also be describing the same flavor two different ways.

Most pink tomatoes are simply milder flavors of red tomatoes to my taste buds.

I haven't found a GWR tomato which tastes good in comparison to other tomatoes. I discount the description of sweet tomatoes because my taste preferences are not sweet. Acidic or tart is probably my strongest preference and those flavors are most commonly found in bright red tomatoes.

Ted

[clkeiper]

Originally Posted by tedln

Speaking only for myself, I sometimes wonder if it would be helpful to be color blind when judging the taste quality of various tomatoes. I wonder if my prejudice for red tomatoes ("it ain't a tomato if it ain't red") causes me to lower my estimation of the flavors of orange, yellow, GWR, black and other color varieties.


Ted

Yes... yes,yes, yes. My MIL is legally blind. she always asks for pink tomatoes... I don't worry over whether it is pink or not... she can't tell the difference and never mentions the "taste" isn't right. So, yes... if you can't see it you can't tell what color it is. it doesn't taste like a color.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tedln

Speaking only for myself, I sometimes wonder if it would be helpful to be color blind when judging the taste quality of various tomatoes. I wonder if my prejudice for red tomatoes ("it ain't a tomato if it ain't red") causes me to lower my estimation of the flavors of orange, yellow, GWR, black and other color varieties.

Of the yellow/orange varieties, only KBX and Orange Minske have flavors which are outstanding to me. I wonder if I like them so much because they taste like the best tasting red tomatoes. The other yellow/orange varieties may have subtle flavors I can't detect.

Of the black tomatoes, only Black Krim, Black From Tula, Indian Stripe; and possibly Carbon have a subtle smokey flavor I like. Some people say they have a salty taste instead of a smokey taste. I can't detect salty flavors in anything until it becomes strongly salty so I would never detect a salty flavor in a tomato. We may also be describing the same flavor two different ways.

Most pink tomatoes are simply milder flavors of red tomatoes to my taste buds.

I haven't found a GWR tomato which tastes good in comparison to other tomatoes. I discount the description of sweet tomatoes because my taste preferences are not sweet. Acidic or tart is probably my strongest preference and those flavors are most commonly found in bright red tomatoes.

Ted

Good post Ted and first I'm going to do a twofer,if you will

I have grown Purple Calabash as well as Red Calabash and can't stand the taste,but Ted,thinking of you who likes acidic or tart,please do grow it.

IDing varieties while blindfolded so they can't see anything? Yes,I've done it a few times and the results were very interesting.

Before doing it folks got a number pinned to their clothes and had to fill out a form saying whether they were pretty new to tomatoes,very experienced,etc.

We cut slices of a variety and put them on plates,blindfolded the person sitting in a chair far from that table,then each person had an escort to hold hands with and go down thru the plates,the escort had a rating sheet that corresponded to the #of the tomato.

Taste was not asked for,color was.See below.

It took those of us who organized it quite a bit of time to tally the results,and in the meantime folks got to know eacho ther if they hadn't known them before,and simple snacks were available.Both homegrowers and commercial growers were invited,actually everyone was,but we wanted to be sure some of the commercial heirloom growers were there.

There was no good correlation between those who had no experience with tomatoes and those that didn't as far as determining color

I forgot, we also had on the sheet what color tomatoes do you prefer, and the escort would write that down and ask the person what color tomato they were eating.

There was little to no correlation between what the person thought the color was and what it really was.

I loved it so much I organized the same kind of event,now for tasting for two other groups,one was the local Master Gardeners group and the other was the members of a local mens gardening club.

They knew the color, but yes there were differences in tastes of a single variety..

Please notice that the participants were NOT asked to describe taste in the first instance above since I knew that that would not work since different folks taste differently and there are human genes that also influence taste.

Yes,I did organize some taste testings with just my own fruits since that's another variable when many bring fruits from their own gardens where taste was one of the major traits,and even had crackers and water between each tasting to clear the palate.

I just got an e- mail from Rob who raises my seedlings for me since I had told him my tomatoes were a disater this year,so tomorrow he's bringing some for me,since Carolyn,meself,cannot believe that from 17 plants not enough fruits to eat.

Carolyn

I once grew Tumbling Tom red and yellow cherry tomatoes. They make a beautiful, highly productive, small plant for containers. Of the two varieties which were visually identical except for fruit color, one was as delicious as I expect a tomato to taste. The other was so acidic, tart, astringic; I couldn't eat them. They were the classic representative of a "spitter" tomato. Unfortunately, I can't remember which color tasted great and which color tasted horrible. I think red tasted good and yellow tasted bad, but I'm not sure. That was an incident where color mattered.

Ted

[SX1794]

Ted, concerning Black tomatoes, have you ever had Paul Robeson? I love love love Black Krim, and have been trying to grow Paul Robeson but my seedlings die off before they get large enough to plant. The bleach water trick has helped noticeably, so maybe I'll have something to try this fall. Anyway, if you'd ever tried Paul Robeson, I'd love to know your thought on flavor (compared to Black Krim). Pictures make them look like they ought to be GRAND.

As for determining flavor in general, even good varieties can be bad sometimes because of the "year" or because of not being perfectly ripe, etc. I had to buy some grocery store "on the vine" tomatoes this spring that were decidedly worse than cardboard, even after sitting on the counter for 4 or 5 days to ripen. I planted some of the seeds just to see if I could pick them at the right instant, and they were actually pretty good. Not heritage good, but not cardboardy.

Dick Sanders


[Of the black tomatoes, only Black Krim, Black From Tula, Indian Stripe; and possibly Carbon have a subtle smokey flavor I like. Some people say they have a salty taste instead of a smokey taste. I can't detect salty flavors in anything until it becomes strongly salty so I would never detect a salty flavor in a tomato. We may also be describing the same flavor two different ways.]

I've grown Paul Robeson, but I don't think it performed well in my garden. One year, I grew mostly black varieties to see how each performed the same year in the same garden. I also really like the taste of Black Krim, but I don't like the texture when fully ripe. I've described it as mushy, but others have corrected me to call it buttery. When I grow them again, I will start harvesting and eating them before they reach full ripeness on the vine.

Indian Stripe and Carbon have been two of my favorite varieties. Indian Stripe had great taste, but limited productivity. Other folks seem to have experienced better production results with Indian Stripe in their gardens.

This thread seems to have evolved from heirlooms not to grow too heirlooms to grow. I'm sure I contributed to the confusion. I apologize.

Ted

[korney19]

Originally Posted by tedln

I can;t think of a variety I don't like. With growing space for about thirty varieties each year, I always rotate the least desirable out of my garden after a couple of years.

Black Krim was rotated out after two years because of it's tendency to become mealy and mushy on the day after it ripens. It tasted very good, it was pretty early, it was very productive.

Pineapple and most multicolor varieties have been rotated out because of their tendency to liquefy when they ripen. They taste good. They have good production of large tomatoes.

I grew Jaune Flamme for three years, but couldn't figure out why most people like it. It never had a good taste for me. Production was very good.

Porters Improved was a very good tomato. It was very productive. Unfortunately, it tasted like most of the larger tomatoes in my garden. I can't see growing small tomatoes which taste like the larger varieties. If it had been an early variety like Moravski Div or Fourth Of July, it would have probably retained a place in my garden.

I think this is my last year growing Kosovo. It is growing beside Wes. Wes has probably twenty large, heart shaped tomatoes on the vines. Kosovo only has two, large, heart shaped tomatoes. Both have tasted good in the past, but I believe Wes tasted slightly better. In appearance and size they are almost identical.

Ted

Here's what the real Jaune Flammee should look; the centers are darker than the rest... I wish I had a better pic but this may be it...
The 2nd pic, "eyes" = Jaune Flammee.
"Mouth" = SunGold (corners) + SunGold Select (middle.)

Hope this helps.

The skins on my Jaune Flamme never became that red. The name itself means yellow flame I believe and my skins were very yellow with very red interiors like yours. I seem to remember the seed locules on mine having an unusual shape but I don't remember the difference well enough to define it.

Ted

[Cole_Robbie]

My Jaune Flamme was orange, too, nothing red about it. It was delicious and I loved it. I'm growing a lot more next year. Along with De Barao Orange, it's going to be the orange component of my small tomato color mix.

[carolyn137]

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...e_Flamm%C3%A9e

Take a look at Tania's pictures for Jaune Flammee or if you have my heirloom tomato book,please look at pictures on page 138.

Photography can be a problem, but the fruits are a deep orange,no red,sometimes a slight red blush at the blossom end, and the interior flesh is rose/red colored.

This was one of the many wonderful tomato varieties that 4 of us got from Norbert in France in 1992 and we all listed them in the SSE Yearbooks in 93 and 94 except for Joe Bratka,who sent me his.

It's a great variety IMO and much better than Jaune Negib,which we got at the same time.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

When I take a pictuer the colors are all off depending on the light.
It wasn't this way when I was using film.

As for me I wont grow Paul Robeson again or Indian Stripe back to Cherokee purple.
Never saw two tomatoes die from the plague faster in my life.

I've been trying to remember the name of a tomato that I really liked that I believe had a name that meant watermelon in Russian. It was probably the most beautiful tomato I've ever grown and tasted as good as it looked. While I never saw it listed as a black tomato, it had such a dark maroon color with lite green vertical striping, it looked like many of the "black" varieties. If I'm ringing any bells on the name, let me know please.

Ted