Very early determinante tomatoes - Page 14

MrBig46 · January 22, 2017

Seedlings grown in the northeast window (no direct sunlight), without lighting.
The length dyays from 8.07 (21 December 2016) until 8.56 hours (1 January 2017). Interior temperatures consistently around 17- 18 ° C on the graph the temperature measured by hour. The first chart is testing datalogger in early December
Vladimír
PS.: Seedlings grow slowly, but so far a lot of time.

RJGlew · January 22, 2017

Seedlings look good - nice and sturdy considering no direct sun. Based on the weather outside of your window, it appears as if you are having a bit of a winter there! Is your winter this year aveage, or colder than average?

MrBig46 · January 23, 2017

This year's January is colder than average (the gray lines).
Vladimír

EricaR · January 23, 2017

I don't grow determinates as I want the tomatoes to ripen over a long period of time, rather than all at once. However, I have grown them in the past. The Siletz has superseded the still popular Oregon Spring because the Siletz is far better tasting. However, it may not be as good as later introductions by Jim Baggett of Oregon Stare University.

Cole_Robbie · January 23, 2017

I don't grow determinates as I want the tomatoes to ripen over a long period of time, rather than all at once.

For what it's worth, the harvest window for determinate varieties can vary quite a bit by variety. I have had some yield continuously over the course of the summer, like Sunny Boy, Bradley, and Celebrity. "Determinate" as a biology term just means that each branch ends in a flower cluster and not a vining tip. There are a lot of commercially grown determinates that are meant to have a short harvest window, but they are not all that way. You also see the term "semi-determinate" thrown around a lot by seed companies, but I don't think there is even a precise definition of it.

Gardeneer · January 23, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I don't grow determinates as I want the tomatoes to ripen over a long period of time, rather than all at once.

For what it's worth, the harvest window for determinate varieties can vary quite a bit by variety. I have had some yield continuously over the course of the summer, like Sunny Boy, Bradley, and Celebrity. "Determinate" as a biology term just means that each branch ends in a flower cluster and not a vining tip. There are a lot of commercially grown determinates that are meant to have a short harvest window, but they are not all that way. You also see the term "semi-determinate" thrown around a lot by seed companies, but I don't think there is even a precise definition of it.

Quote:

"Determinate" as a biology term just means that each branch ends in a flower cluster and not a vining tip.

that is it.
I have grown determinants that kept fruiting all season long (Siletz )and some that were finished after the first flush (Silvery Fir Tree).
I don't get the "semi" thing either. I think that is referred to compact indet which has slower and short indet growth habit. But it is still an indet.

MrBig46 · January 24, 2017

It is not true that all determinate varieties ripen at once. Only some of which are bred for mechanical harvesting ripen at once. Determinant varieties really terminate stalks by flowers.
The important thing is that they are low plants (bush), because between the two inflorescence is only one sheet (indeterminante three sheets). I want to watch all my determinate varieties how they grow and record all data. For each variety I have in my computer in MS-excel separate table (picture). I will try to keep you informed regularly.
Vladimír

Cole_Robbie · January 24, 2017

I agree that determinants are bushy. Some varieties make small plants in any conditions. I have found, though, that in very good soil, some determinate varieties do make big plants - big bushy ones.

bower · January 24, 2017

Awesome, Vladimir!

There really are many different habits for determinates, ie plants that terminate in a cluster. Some are very small, others are taller, and the pattern of leaf vs cluster does vary a lot. The genetics are

. But it seems that many different patterns can be stabilized, large or small. There is a lot of variation in the OP's I've tried.

bower · January 24, 2017

FWIW, there is a working definition of semi-determinate, used by some researchers, that they have at least six inflorescence on the main stem before termination. The typical 'determinate' will have fewer than six.

schill93 · January 25, 2017

I had a Celebrity plant last season which is a semi-determinate. It produced until the summer temperatures of 115 every day put it to sleep, but come fall, it started blossoming again and put on about 40-50 tomatoes that were larger than it's first flush. I was really amazed. Too bad it tastes like cardboard.

Cole_Robbie · January 25, 2017

My Celebrity were flavorless red baseballs, too. I think there is some evidence that the variety may have changed over the years. It's not the same plant it was 20-30 years ago.

RJGlew · January 28, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBig46

...For each variety I have in my computer in MS-excel separate table (picture)....

Hi Vladamir,

When you first showed me your XLS I did not appreciate the plans you had for it. Now I see it in use, I am very impressed - this is going to keep you very busy.

Questions:

1. When do you record the date of a leaf emerging? When it first appears from the meristem, or do you wait until it is a certain size?

2. Are you ok with me using the sheet for a couple of my own plants this year?

Thank you for sharing,

rg

MrBig46 · February 1, 2017

Hi Robert,
Ad 1) -germinated plant I record when the cotyledons are horizontal.
-leaf I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ")
-inflorescence I record when it is greater than 12 mm (1/2 ")
-sucker I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ")
-flower I record when fully opened
-compare ripeness of fruit will be around for different varieties problematic. I do not know yet how I'll do it.

Ad 2) Robert, I will be very glad if you use the same table as me. We will be able to exchange our data. I want to use this record also when growing tomatoes from Stupice circuit and also for the early Czech hybrids.
Vladimír

RJGlew · February 2, 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBig46

Hi Robert,
Ad 1) -germinated plant I record when the cotyledons are horizontal.
-leaf I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ")
-inflorescence I record when it is greater than 12 mm (1/2 ")
-sucker I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ")
-flower I record when fully opened
-compare ripeness of fruit will be around for different varieties problematic. I do not know yet how I'll do it.

Ad 2) Robert, I will be very glad if you use the same table as me. We will be able to exchange our data. I want to use this record also when growing tomatoes from Stupice circuit and also for the early Czech hybrids.
Vladimír

Thank you - very good idea for the Stupice varieties I will be growing this season - Stupice (North American), Stupické Polní Rané (Moravo), Stupické Polní Rané (Semo), Stupické Polní Rané (Sempra), Stupické Polní Rané (Seva). I will only allow one stem to keep the effort manageable.

February 1, 2017	#209
MrBig46 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Czech republic Posts: 2,534	Hi Robert, Ad 1) -germinated plant I record when the cotyledons are horizontal. -leaf I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ") -inflorescence I record when it is greater than 12 mm (1/2 ") -sucker I record when it is greater than 25 mm (1 ") -flower I record when fully opened -compare ripeness of fruit will be around for different varieties problematic. I do not know yet how I'll do it. Ad 2) Robert, I will be very glad if you use the same table as me. We will be able to exchange our data. I want to use this record also when growing tomatoes from Stupice circuit and also for the early Czech hybrids. Vladimír Last edited by MrBig46; February 1, 2017 at 06:06 AM.

January 22, 2017	#197
RJGlew Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 645	Seedlings look good - nice and sturdy considering no direct sun. Based on the weather outside of your window, it appears as if you are having a bit of a winter there! Is your winter this year aveage, or colder than average?

January 23, 2017	#199
EricaR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Arroyo Grande, CA, USA Posts: 3	I don't grow determinates as I want the tomatoes to ripen over a long period of time, rather than all at once. However, I have grown them in the past. The Siletz has superseded the still popular Oregon Spring because the Siletz is far better tasting. However, it may not be as good as later introductions by Jim Baggett of Oregon Stare University.

January 23, 2017	#200
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I don't grow determinates as I want the tomatoes to ripen over a long period of time, rather than all at once. For what it's worth, the harvest window for determinate varieties can vary quite a bit by variety. I have had some yield continuously over the course of the summer, like Sunny Boy, Bradley, and Celebrity. "Determinate" as a biology term just means that each branch ends in a flower cluster and not a vining tip. There are a lot of commercially grown determinates that are meant to have a short harvest window, but they are not all that way. You also see the term "semi-determinate" thrown around a lot by seed companies, but I don't think there is even a precise definition of it.

January 24, 2017	#203
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I agree that determinants are bushy. Some varieties make small plants in any conditions. I have found, though, that in very good soil, some determinate varieties do make big plants - big bushy ones.

January 24, 2017	#204
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Awesome, Vladimir! There really are many different habits for determinates, ie plants that terminate in a cluster. Some are very small, others are taller, and the pattern of leaf vs cluster does vary a lot. The genetics are . But it seems that many different patterns can be stabilized, large or small. There is a lot of variation in the OP's I've tried.

January 24, 2017	#205
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	FWIW, there is a working definition of semi-determinate, used by some researchers, that they have at least six inflorescence on the main stem before termination. The typical 'determinate' will have fewer than six.

January 25, 2017	#206
schill93 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: Nevada Posts: 275	I had a Celebrity plant last season which is a semi-determinate. It produced until the summer temperatures of 115 every day put it to sleep, but come fall, it started blossoming again and put on about 40-50 tomatoes that were larger than it's first flush. I was really amazed. Too bad it tastes like cardboard.

January 25, 2017	#207
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	My Celebrity were flavorless red baseballs, too. I think there is some evidence that the variety may have changed over the years. It's not the same plant it was 20-30 years ago.