Striped pepper!

[Cole_Robbie]

Originally Posted by Darren Abbey

As an aside, I expect even the vegetatively propagated plants don't always produce striped fruit.

I thought a clone was always identical to the mother plant. Is that not right?

[Labradors2]

Daren Abbey wrote:

"In any sort of mutation breeding experiment, you use a sufficiently high dose of the mutagen so that you are very likely to find selectable variation. A consequence of this is that the M1 plant that was found to have striped fruit likely has many other hidden mutations from the treatment. In the M2 generation, these mutations will be segregating (just like in F2s). Of my 7 plants, 1 has purple marks on the petal tips and another has intense black shoulders on the fruit. Two visible mutations segregating out of seven plants again suggests there are many more that remain hidden yet."


I'm not sure if I quite understand the first sentence above. What is a mutagen? Does it mean that the more seeds that are grown, the better likelihood of actually finding a striped pepper (albeit with other mutations)?

Linda

[dmforcier]

Certain chemicals (et al.?) "encourage" genetic mutations. A grower can apply these mutagens to plants to make mutations in the DNA of their seeds.

Some mutations - such as stripes - will be obvious and/or desirable. Others won't be obvious in the first generation, but will come out in later generations.

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I thought a clone was always identical to the mother plant. Is that not right?

It really depends on the fine details of what is going on in the biology.
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Plants have three different types of genomes (genetic material) in their cells. The main one in the nucleus is what people normally think about. The chloroplasts and mitochondria each have their own independent genomes. All three are tightly linked in the overall biology, but the differences do sometimes come into play.

The nuclear genome is arranged into chromosomes that generally come in pairs, but they're all held in the same place (the nucleus). If a mutation is present in the nuclear genome of a cell, every cell grown from that one would also share that mutation. (There are complications, but lets just go with it for now.)

The chloroplast (and mitochondria) genomes come in many copies distributed all throughout the cell. Each chloroplast has their own. If a mutation was present in all of the chloroplasts of a cell, it would also always be found in every cell grown from it. If a mutation was only present in half of the chloroplasts, however, it isn't certain that each cell grown from it would have the mutation.
----

In variegated plants, generally, some cells have lost the function of their chloroplasts and turned white/yellow while others remain fully functional. If you cloned the pale parts, you'd end up with a pale clone (that would probably starve to death quickly). If you cloned the green parts, you'd end up with a green clone. You can still propagate most variegated plants vegetatively and have both white and green parts maintained because the pale and green parts are derived from different parts of preexisting tissue. (There are always complications/exceptions, but this seems a pretty general rule.)

To me, the Enjoy pepper seems like it has a peculiar sort of variegation. The red/orange/yellow color of peppers is developed in modified chloroplasts called chromoplasts. If only some of the cells contain chloroplasts with the mutation that prevents red pigment, then only some of the cells (and tissue grown of them) would be yellow. If you clone the plant, then sometimes you might accidentally lose one or the other type of chloroplast and so end up with only solid red or yellow fruit.

[[Sorry if that got somewhat deep.]]

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Does it mean that the more seeds that are grown, the better likelihood of actually finding a striped pepper (albeit with other mutations)?

Its more that the more seeds that are grown, the better the likelihood of finding some other unexpected mutations. I don't think the striped trait is going to turn out to be heritable, except in an extremely rare case.

[Darren Abbey]

Though I am leaning heavily towards the variegation model to explain the stripes... It doesn't explain why only yellow fruit are turning up in the progeny. We should also be seeing red-fruited plants, as well as the potentially very rare plant with striped fruit.

There remains some unknown biology going on here. More numbers of plants grown might help clarify things. Since I've found the fruit so far produced to be worthwhile, I expect to keep growing out my seeds for a few years. Maybe something will turn up. Who knows?

[Labradors2]

Thanks DMF and Darren.

If they are tasty yellows, it would be worth growing a few just to see.

Linda

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by Labradors2

If they are tasty yellows, it would be worth growing a few just to see.

So far, my plants have produced sizable yellow bells, with relatively dense sweet flesh. I had one start to go off before it was fully ripe, but I'm not sure what that might indicate. I definitely think they're worthwhile.

[Barb_FL]

After 3 days/4 nights I removed the yellow pepper and banana from the bag. No stripes - just very overripe fruit. Not a surprise or disappointment.

BTW - I picked a couple of peppers from the other plant and they are the size of my hand. I will try to post a picture.

For those of you who received seeds, I think the Enjoya's are worthy to grow if you are looking for a big blocky yellow sweet pepper on a very short plant.

[efisakov]

Barb, Abbey,
how productive this plans?
thanks

[Labradors2]

Good to know that it's a worthwhile pepper to grow.

Would it be better to get seeds directly from a striped Enjoya or from some seeds that have been grown out?

Maybe someone needs to splash a little Roundup on them. I've heard that can do some interesting things to Daylilies (if it doesn't kill them first)

Linda

[PhilaGardener]

Originally Posted by Barb_FL

After 3 days/4 nights I removed the yellow pepper and banana from the bag. No stripes - just very overripe fruit. Not a surprise or disappointment.

Thanks for the try! I guess the mystery continues . . .

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Darren Abbey

Its more that the more seeds that are grown, the better the likelihood of finding some other unexpected mutations. I don't think the striped trait is going to turn out to be heritable, except in an extremely rare case.

First thanks for the explanations. Now my question is, with the Enjoya being a mutant, what might seed saved from the fruits being collected now bring and also if plants folks have now, are able to overwinter them and cross them with now harvested seed, would that possibly bring out more of the mutation and possible stripes?

[Darren Abbey]

Originally Posted by Starlight

First thanks for the explanations. Now my question is, with the Enjoya being a mutant, what might seed saved from the fruits being collected now bring and also if plants folks have now, are able to overwinter them and cross them with now harvested seed, would that possibly bring out more of the mutation and possible stripes?

One can never be certain! Subsequent generations (M2, M3, etc.) can help to make visible recessive mutations generated at the start, but there's no way to predict if any of those recessives will be what you'd consider interesting. Growing out a bunch of M2s is similar to growing out a bunch of F2s, except you don't have the grandparent types as hints about what may turn up.
----

I can also recommend the Enjoya seeds as a way to grow hefty yellow bell peppers. The ripe fruit I've picked has tasted very good in each dish I've prepared with them.

[dmforcier]

What does the "Mn" designation represent compared to the "Fn" designation? A mutant line?