Is this little thing really what's destroyed my gardens?

[dice]

[aminopyralid in manures]

Here in the US we routinely need to do bioassays for broadleaf
herbicide contamination in manures:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/bioassay.html

To avoid this:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/

Testing with peas or beans is a better idea than testing
with tomato seedlings (shows contamination faster):
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27485

[Paradajz]

hi, N.,

while waiting for the diagnosis on your plants some answers i owe you

Can you give an example of a commercially available product for copper ( oxychloride or oxysulfate )?

i use oxysulfate although oxychloride is slightly more effective for this matter, since i find the first one slightly easier for the soil.
when stated it should be used at 1% rate, please note that it would maybe be more precisely said ''at 2 or 3 times higher rate than standard recommended doses''. this depends on anticipated future rainfall amounts- the larger rainfall needs higher application dose.

vermicast + beneficial bacteria bio- stimulator + water - Can you give me a finer description of exactly what you mean by this? I assume vermicast is just the worm casting product that I produce in my worm bin. what beneficial bacteria bio- stimulator do you have in mind? Is this a tea, or just all the above mixed together with water into a sludge.

whatever product you find suitable, if your garden was here i'd know an answer to that one. use a product which labels beneficial bacteria content as ''nitrogen fixators'', ''phosphorus mineralisators'', etc.- the wider range of microbes it has the better. if you happen to know the PH there and it leans towards acidic exclude myco- products at this point. use it at a double high rate.
make a sludge of it, stir it up, dip the whole root area in for a minute or so, when you take it out it should be already finished on it's own- the stuff should be totally covering the roots with a thick layer. if not, add some on your own
whatever about the procedure, but this part actually makes wonders with tomato plants in general

fosetyl aluminium + propamocarb ( Previcur energy ) - I'm not sure we can get Previcur energy here in the states. I saw this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/280925690773?hlp=false&var=) under a search for propamocarb, but it's not cheap, and I'm not even sure that's the product you are to which you are refering. For the fosetyl aluminum, I found these:
https://www.google.com/search?q=fose...w=1168&bih=655
I'm not sure how the two products would be combined if I were to talk myself into using them and dishing out the hundreds of $$$ to purchase them.

no, don't try to mix those on your own. vau, those prices hurt. the original product costs some 5€ for 100ml in my neghborhood, it's sufficient for 166 plants
ok, it's basically copper and mancozeb which make a chemical compound which is thought to solves the issue, so the previcur energy one you can replace with a following procedure: 4 days intervals drench with a double dose of beneficial bacteria stuff, 3 applications.
if it happens that the rainfall there gets to be above 20mm a day for longer than 3 days, make a 7-8 inch circle of copper wire ( the one used in electric cables 1.5mm diameter ) and dig it in the soil around a plant some 4 inch deep. don't laugh, this actually does it.
by the way, how would you try to do a sadistic ''torture'' on one of your plants which has only started showing symptoms and pierce it trough the stem- crown center with this kind of wire? do it, just for fun, you can shoot me later

will be continued, br.

[z_willus_d]

Ok, quick update on my status.

I'm still seeing a steady loss of foliage to this ??? problem. But I've got something to report that will make Ivan happy.

So I took a drive to the Hutchison Hall at the UC Davis campus to meet with one of their plant pathologists today. I brought samples of the soil (6" down) from each of my beds, as well as a sample of my "vermicast." Also, I pulled out the dead crown and roots from the non-grafted Green Zebra plant I've shown pics of before. And, finally, lots of leaf and branch samples from the dead to sort of dead/inflicted tomato and pepper plants.

My plant-doctor quickly keyed in on what he thought looked like evidence for Verticillium, which he indicated is actual certainly viable around the area. So, Ivan, you're in good company with your insights. I mentioned the L.T. P.M, which he wasn't fully dismissive of, so he's running some of the leaves through a humidity cycle and then will check for it under the microscope. Also, we cut into the lower trunk of the dead plant (see pics), and found that dark tell-tail for V/F, however since this plant has been dead for several weeks and not grafted, it doesn't make such a clear case for the prognosis. For that we'll need the plates. I also need to sacrifice one of my producing grafted plants, but I'll wait for the test results before going to that length.

Well that's it for now. It should be a week or more before I hear back. In the meantime, I'll prepare myself for the worst. I think I'll try and re-summarize Ivan's V removal steps as I understand them in another post. I want to see how much of that process I can reasonably exercise, and I want to make sure I understand it. BTW, the UCD individual was amenable to the idea of using tilled-in manure to help with a V problem, but he was quick to note it was no solution, just a way of improving the already bad situation.
-naysen

[Mlm1]

Wow, Naysen. That is very interesting. good for Ivan but that means we have V in this area. Well, I hope you don't have it but it sounds like Ivan has given you a plan if you do. I need to take a closer look at your plant pictures. We need a thread on v with all of your information if it turns out positive. It goes to show you how difficult it is to figure these diseases out despite reading everything you can find. sorry Naysen that it is a possibility but you sure have become knowledgeable on tomato diseases in the last year.
Marla

[Heritage]

Naysen, thanks for the update. Between Ivan and UCDavis it sounds like you are going to end up with a comprehensive evaluation and good basis for your next steps.

Out of curiosity, did you grow any other vegetables on this list in your V-soil, and did they seem to behave as expected for growing in V infected soil?
http://depts.washington.edu/hortlib/...rticillium.pdf

Steve

[dice]

It turns out that allium cepa is simply the common onion (mentioned
in the Chinese study examining alcohol extracts of plants
for verticillium repression):
http://eol.org/pages/1084354/overview

[z_willus_d]

Hi Marla, I'm anxious to see where the assays lead me. It sounds like whatever they find (or don't), I'm in for plenty more "fun." I still haven't got a good answer for why it's the inner foliage most affected/afflicted, but I'm think it might be a case of compound issues. Maybe V in general, weakening the plant mixed with tight spacing, low air-flow, hot temps that brings on fungal, mold, or mildew issues.

Steve, thanks for that study list -- good to have in one's back pocket. I wish they also gave some measure of how susceptible the plants are (or are not) to verticillium). From the list, I am also growing Eggplants, Peppers, Cucumbers, Cantaloupe/Melons; and have grown Spinach in off-season. I also searched the web and found that cauliflower and broccoli are susceptible (I lost many leaves to a yellowing drop), and I grew these also in the fall/winter off-season. That said, UCD (here: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r734100811.html) states "Crop rotation with broccoli has been shown as an effective way to reduce Verticillium in the soil" for managing wilt in strawberry fields, which seems to be contradictory to other information.

Certainly, my eggplant are loosing leaves (as they have in the previous season) in a continual stream. I loose one or two per plant depending on the size every couple days. The leaf/branch turns yellow and then drops off. I'm not sure if this is Verticillium or something else like P.M. It doesn't seem to kill the plants, just slowly defoliate them at the rate about commensurate with new growth (see pic).

You've already seen some of the pics I've posted about the peppers, which have been suffering yellowing leaves and defoliation to the same extent as my tomatoes, more or less. This is my first year growing melons in this garden (or any recently), so I'm not sure if the loss of leaves and yellowing is due to V or P.M. Cucs are too young to say. I have spaghetti squash that is loosing it's older leaves to what looks like P.M.

The Spinach seemed to do OK, though it too lost the older leaves to chlorosis, which I assumed was normal.

Dice, interesting studies you found on inter-planting with plants that are V-repelling. I'm allergic to Allium, so I'm not to keen on growing them in my garden. My wife certainly wouldn't mind more around though. But I do the cooking here, so I have the power to omit the stinky stuff.

[Paradajz]

N.,

first photo is the image you've been looking for. and no, it can't make me happy.
but you also don't need to prepare yourself for the worst, there is nothing worst about it ( this was an intentionally funny English, not as usual ). you'll beat it, thrust me.

we'll talk more about it, and the procedure.
please also note, if you get confused sometimes by the contradictory stuff on V. from the net, don't be- most of it is actually true. it's a highly unexplored pathogen and there are still plenty of answers missing. but it's beatable anyway, so don't worry.

br

[z_willus_d]

Hi Ivan, thanks for the encouragement. I suppose if gardening weren't a challenge, I more quickly bore of it. It will be quite an achievement and satisfaction to get through a season having beat this.
Thanks for all your help pointing me in the right direction.
-naysen

[b54red]

Naysen, figuring out how to work around a problem and be somewhat successful is very rewarding. I have been working around fusarium for so long and had resigned myself to just losing most if not all of my plants by the time they were producing ripe tomatoes or having to only use tolerant hybrids and lose most if not all by the end of three months. Frequently a few plants would beat the odds but they were few and far between. Grafting onto more resistant rootstock has done for me what I was hoping it would. It has given me a few extra weeks of production on most of my plants before they sicken with fusarium wilt. Happily most are giving me even more production time than a few weeks. Obviously I have all three races of fusarium since the plants with the rootstock resistant to all three are doing by far the best. By this time last year all but a few of my plants had died and been replaced with new seedlings. As of this moment I have only lost 6% of my plants to fusarium wilt and only a little over half are even showing much in the way of symptoms of the disease. This is a major achievement for me and extremely gratifying. Now if someone will just come up with a fungicide that is super effective in our very humid climate, I could get away with planting only about a dozen plants each year. Of course that is far too few to give me the variety that I like.

I hope you find a way to deal with your problems because those overwhelming challenges year after year can get old.

Bill

[z_willus_d]

Hi Bill, you and I have been on parallel "journeys" this year with the grafting experience. It's been great to hear how much the grafted plants have helped you overcome the perennial fusarium problems in your garden. Question, which again of your rootstock are resistant to all three races? I know you're using Multifort, but were there others?

I'm probably going to need to shift from Maxifort to rootstock with additional resistances next year, depending on how my soil testing comes back. Since you're paving the way in multi-race F resistant grafting, I'm sure I'll have something to learn from you. One last question, have you noticed any difference in flavor, consistency, taste in your fruit this year on the grafted plants vs. the standard non-grafted?

Thanks,
Naysen

[z_willus_d]

FYI- found this and thought I'd post it here:

Biological Control of Tomato Verticillium Wilt by Using Indigenous Trichoderma spp.
http://www.globalsciencebooks.info/J...1%2926-36o.pdf

[b54red]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Hi Bill, you and I have been on parallel "journeys" this year with the grafting experience. It's been great to hear how much the grafted plants have helped you overcome the perennial fusarium problems in your garden. Question, which again of your rootstock are resistant to all three races? I know you're using Multifort, but were there others?

I'm probably going to need to shift from Maxifort to rootstock with additional resistances next year, depending on how my soil testing comes back. Since you're paving the way in multi-race F resistant grafting, I'm sure I'll have something to learn from you. One last question, have you noticed any difference in flavor, consistency, taste in your fruit this year on the grafted plants vs. the standard non-grafted?

Thanks,
Naysen

Naysen, so far my best results have been with Floralina a determinate that produces very well and is resistant to all three. The other one that has done great is Tasti-Lee which I have never grown except as a rootstock and it is resistant to all three. The other two I am trying that are resistant to all three races of fusarium are Multifort and Amelia. I was very familiar with Amelia as it is the favored tomato for the commercial growers around here because of its fantastic disease resistance and abundant production. I didn't get any Amelia or Multifort rootstock grafts into the garden until late May and they are only about 3 ft tall now. So far they are looking good and I am continuing to put out more each week.

Of the rootstock that I have used with the triple resistance I have had much better luck in the grafting stage with Floralina and Amelia; but that could just be chance. I haven't found any difference in taste and if anything they are tastier this year; but that could be because the plants are healthier for longer.

I'll keep you posted as the season progresses.

Bill

[z_willus_d]

Bill, sounds like all good news on your end. So you have 4 3 race F resistant Rootstock to choose from. It sounds like you'll have to whittle that down to the top one or two RS. Any idea what kind of Verticillium resistance those varieties have?
-naysen

[b54red]

According to everything I've read they are all resistant to V but I don't know which has the stronger resistance since it isn't something I have to deal with. You would probably have to call the producers of the seed to find out more.

Bill