February 5, 2017 | #226 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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Mutated (or something or other) vs. Filial. I think it is more carrying on the metaphor, rather than having a specific word that it harkens to.
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February 5, 2017 | #227 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
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Some mutations are dominant and show in the M1 generation but many are recessive and require selfing the M1 and screening of the M2 (analogous to the F2 of a normal cross) to recover individuals with two copies of the affected gene to express the trait.
Most mutageneses generate multiple hits per genome to increase the chances of getting something interesting. Only a few generate visible phenotypes, but many can have a negative effect on the health of the plant, so carrying things out a few generations can let things segregate and help reduce negative genetic effects. A breeder might also back-cross to the original line since that is identical, except for the induced mutations, as a way to restore vigor but that is more labor intensive (particularly in the case of recessive traits). |
February 17, 2017 | #228 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
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February 17, 2017 | #229 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Dallas, TX
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What are you trying to do? Shoot for that rare mutation (i.e. flames)? IMO you should start from the original. But others understand genetics better than I. Guys?
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February 17, 2017 | #230 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 27
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Honestly, I'm just happy if something doesn't die before I get to eat it. I figure it sounds tasty and it could be fun to see if a surprise pops up later down the line. I just thought I'd ask in case I might be more useful to people here one way or the other.
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February 17, 2017 | #231 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3
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Merridiel - shoot me a PM, and I will send you some seeds from a striped fruit purchased last fall. So far, no one has seen stripes in a plant from F1/M1 seeds. I'm not clear on whether the people with the first crack at seeds have started enough mass seeds to find those elusive recessives -- if such exist here. Seeds have been distributed via various exchanges, so we might learn more after this growing season if anyone gets lucky. It's always possible something could show up in the next couple of generations, but we'll probably never know, since people will likely give up when they don't see stripes right away.
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February 17, 2017 | #232 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
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Quote:
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February 20, 2017 | #233 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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I'm still thinking there will be a very rare plant grown from seeds saved from an Enjoya pepper that will show the stripes. The genetics are unclear, but the more data we can get the more clear it will become.
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February 20, 2017 | #234 | ||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,993
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Quote:
A few folks have tried microwaves. Nobody posted results of how that worked. Best bet if not a natural mutation is xrays for home folks. EMS 9 ethyl methane sulfonate) is used too but too dangerous for untutored folks to handle and work with. Quote:
Some I read also suggested that especially in the M2 generation alot of differences would up. With foliage pics posted might see some genetic diversity that might lead to something. Darren... Did you know that there is a mutant database? Followed a link from another site to it. Not sure how up to date it is, but did find some peppers listed https://mvd.iaea.org/#!Search?page=1...t=ASC&Criteria[0][field]=FreeText&Criteria[0][val]=Pepper Mutant F1 Orange Beauty https://mvd.iaea.org/#!Variety/3429 Like a lot of the mutants looks like they used 120 Gy of xray. Have no idea what the Gy stands for. What was interesting to note and a few of us that took seed to have xrayed along with kids candy to make sure it was safe back in the day, didn't have to much success. Might have been to low a dose or what I found interesting in some reports was they soaked the seed for several hours before xraying to get the mutants. Page for tomatoes for anybody interested https://mvd.iaea.org/#!Search?page=1...t=ASC&Criteria[0][field]=FreeText&Criteria[0][val]=Tomato A question.... With how easily peppers cross, wouldn't it actually be better to try out-crossing and back-crossing to get the desirable traits you want. Wouldn't that make future generations more easy to stabilize? |
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February 23, 2017 | #235 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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I've written a new post over at my blog about these peppers.
There are some photos and thoughts haven't shared here. http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot....ya-pepper.html
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February 23, 2017 | #236 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10
Posts: 9,283
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Fascinating read. Thank you it is explained so clearly and understandably. So no seeds in the red tissues.
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February 23, 2017 | #237 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,993
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Quote:
I plan on starting all the seeds I have. I plan on isolating all of them so they basic self. I'm going to take one or two plants once I see what is produced and am thinking about crossing it with Putzagold and the Fish Pepper. Putzagold because it sweet and not sure what might come out from the cross. Pic is a young seedling that had started making a pepper. The peppers started out green then went to like cream, then had pale yellow, with tangerine color and added just a touch of red blotch to the mix at the end. I loved seeing all the colors on it. Gonna try the Fish Pepper because it has stripes. Have no idea what to expect, but thinking maybe with the stripes there might be some way to yet get that Jalapeno with red stripes. Just wish it didn't take so long for the plants to grow and produce. |
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February 24, 2017 | #238 | ||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 586
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Quote:
I also want to cross an M2 to a line of small-sweet-brown-upright fruited bells, with the goals of increasing the fruit size but otherwise maintain the overall form. I'd never heard of Putzagold. It sounds pretty. Quote:
I have Fish pepper, as well as some nice jalapeno types, and some brown types. I can't seem to find any images of a true-brown jalapeno, so that combination may not be available. Getting all of the traits piled into one plant would take a few years... we may have something to keep discussing that would be fitting for the name of this thread. Don't I know it. I'm in Minnesota. I had to pull them out of my garden and put them under lights to get them to ripen. It would help to get them started much sooner than I did, so I hope to have better luck this year. It would also help to keep the rabbits off of them, which may be trickier.
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http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com Last edited by Darren Abbey; February 24, 2017 at 12:18 AM. |
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February 24, 2017 | #239 |
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 942
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Hasn't anybody tried to back cross-it, or F2 x F3? (Darren's M2 x M3)
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February 24, 2017 | #240 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10
Posts: 9,283
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There is a Pusztagold Pepper.
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