Diatomaceous Earth

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

The sale and use of DE for pest control in California is illegal -- and for good reasons. Cesar Chavez was a major proponent of the ban.

Do you have any links to verify that? I've not heard of any bans on food grade DE for pest control anywhere. There may be some local ordinances as far as disposal of filter grade DE.

Originally Posted by Sun City Linda

I purchased a bag of DE in the garden section of a national retailer last year. What else would it be used for in gardening if not pest control?

The finely powdered form of fresh water DE doesn't have much practical use in the garden outside of pest control that I'm aware of, and to be effective as a soft bodied pest killer or a deterrent it must be dry.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by RayR

Do you have any links to verify that? I've not heard of any bans on food grade DE for pest control anywhere. There may be some local ordinances as far as disposal of filter grade DE.

I know that I cannot license DE in any shape or form for sale as a consumer pesticide in California. Also I know that if I see DE (food grade or otherwise) for sale either (1) labeled for use as consumer pesticide or (2) not labeled for use as pesticide but placed next to consumer pesticide products, then I can report it to the CDFA inspector and it will be off the shelf within a day.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

I know that I cannot license DE in any shape or form for sale as a consumer pesticide in California. Also I know that if I see DE (food grade or otherwise) for sale either (1) labeled for use as consumer pesticide or (2) not labeled for use as pesticide but placed next to consumer pesticide products, then I can report it to the CDFA inspector and it will be off the shelf within a day.

Where's the law? I want to reads it. I can't find any such reference to a ban on DE as a pest control?

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by RayR

Where's the law? I want to reads it. I can't find any such reference to a ban on DE as a pest control?

Ask these folks about registering diatomaceous earth for retail sales to unlicensed consumers in California: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/

Also, this information on DE safety might interest readers, esp. about DE for pool filters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom...considerations

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Ask these folks about registering diatomaceous earth for retail sales to unlicensed consumers in California: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/

Also, this information on DE safety might interest readers, esp. about DE for pool filters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom...considerations

I still can't find anything about a ban on the sale of DE on their web site. Quite the opposite, there are a bunch of registered active DE product brands in their database for sale in CA, and DE is listed as a control for insects like cockroaches and Argentine Ants.
Maybe I just misunderstand you. Is it that in CA you may only sell DE for insect control to consumers if it is a registered brand that has all the usual bureaucratic labeling requirements? In other words, you can't buy a 50 pound sack of food grade DE, break in up into 1 lb. zip lock bags and sell that on the shelf to consumers in CA?

[Sun City Linda]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Water filter. Check the label.

Safer Brand. Big yellow bag clearly states kills insects in large print on front of bag along with large pictures of various insects.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by RayR

I still can't find anything about a ban on the sale of DE on their web site. Quite the opposite, there are a bunch of registered active DE product brands in their database for sale in CA, and DE is listed as a control for insects like cockroaches and Argentine Ants....

There are products with DE as a the active ingredient registered for California sale in specific applications. Several of those products may only be used by persons holding some form of a pesticide applicators license. The products that do not require a license are not labeled for agricultural use. On these products it clearly states: It is unlawful to use this product in a manner that is inconsistent with its labeling -- which is actually a Federal Law, FIFRA sec. 12(a)(2)(G).

For agricultural use of DE in California with a pesticide applicators license, the application almost always requires that a county inspector be present.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by Sun City Linda

Safer Brand. Big yellow bag clearly states kills insects in large print on front of bag along with large pictures of various insects.

Here is the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product: http://www.saferbrand.com/resource/MSDS/EN/51702.pdf

Here is the use it is licensed for in California: http://www.kellysolutions.com/ca/sho...=59913-1-42697

Linda, notice that your product label does not match the California restrictions regarding "Sites to which this Product may be Applied": http://www.kellysolutions.com/ca/sho...+INSECT+KILLER

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Here is the Material Safety Data Sheet for the product: http://www.saferbrand.com/resource/MSDS/EN/51702.pdf

Here is the use it is licensed for in California: http://www.kellysolutions.com/ca/sho...=59913-1-42697

Linda, notice that your product label does not match the California restrictions regarding "Sites to which this Product may be Applied": http://www.kellysolutions.com/ca/sho...+INSECT+KILLER

Changing the goal posts and backtracking are we? You said

Originally Posted by Hermitian

The sale and use of DE for pest control in California is illegal

Now you just posted proof what you said was wrong. Both the sale and the use for pest control is legal, and you even posted a link to the pests for which a person could use it, inside or outside their home.

Now I certainly understand why a commercial grower might be banned from, lets say for instance, loading up a crop duster and dusting a field. Clearly that would be a hazard to the agricultural workers breathing all that dust, and explains why a county inspector might be required to be present.

But labeling for domestic use, and needing a county inspector for commercial use, is a far cry from "banned".

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

... But labeling for domestic use, and needing a county inspector for commercial use, is a far cry from "banned".

You will not find it labeled in CA for domestic use in the garden.

[Sun City Linda]

I understand, and concede your point Richard. Its legal to apply this on dogs, cats, porches and sheds, just not dirt. But as Scott pointed out, that is not the same as being banned for pest control in CA. Clearly, DE is NOT banned for pest control in CA. To be sure, I need to herd those earwigs off the soil and onto the sidewalk before I nuke them with DE.

[Hermitian]

And I apologize, I thought the context was gardening, not flea products for pets.

Perhaps some of you have the experience of driving somewhere in town and discovering a new traffic light in a place that you think is a poor location.
Very often one or more persons died at that location before the city was convinced that a traffic signal was needed. In the coming years and decades the businesses in the area might convince the city that the risk is low and to remove the light. But for now if you happen to find yourself at such a ★★★★★★★★, please take a moment to pay respect to the person(s) for whom the monument stands.

[sergeant69]

and maybe they were just crappy drivers! whats that got to do with DE?
wasn't cesar chavez that guy that convinced like 9 people to quit eating grapes for a week? again, whats that got to do w/DE?

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by RayR

I've had the opposite experience with insects, although DE can kill soft bodied insects, it's been great for me at discouraging cucumber beetles and Japanese beetles from feeding on leaves.

I found DE to be very effective at killing little baby squash bugs. Not SVB but the bugs that look like stink bugs. It's all I use. I see one of those buggers and I dust the squash until its white.
The hard part is that the underside of the leaves also have to be dusted. I always dust around the bottom of the plant well,too.