Mycorrhizae..can I get more bang for my $$$?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by greentiger87
Chitin as the primary nitrogen source promotes the production of antifungal enzymes/metabolites and favors actinobacteria. For actinobacteria, the brewers yeast powder may actually be counterproductive. Actinobacteria are well adapted to situations with very little nutrition, and perhaps no exogenous growth factors, unlike many bacteria. However, it is a standard component of many culture mediums. I haven't yet experimented with leaving it out, but I will.

Thanks for sharing your experiment in such detail.
Since yeast are a single celled fungi and their cell walls are held together by chitin, wouldn't the antifungal metabolites made by the streptomyces also kill off the saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast?

Did you have the opportunity to try your brew against an active fungal leaf infection? An active culture already rich in antifungal enzymes sounds likes it may be very potent against fungal pathogens.

Originally Posted by Master_Gardener

Some plants will benefit from the inoculation of both Mycorrhizae and Rhizobium. I used both this year.

Yes, I've done the same with peas and beans.

[greentiger87]

Hi Ray,

The yeast in this case are dead. They're meant to be a source of nutrients and growth factors. Any that are alive in the brewer's yeast powder will quickly be killed by the boiling or pressure cooking.

Common brewers yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) has only very small amounts of chitin in their cell walls.

The active organism here is whatever you inoculate with right before you turn on the air pump and let it sit. In my case, it's Streptomyces lydicus. I have access to useful Streptomyces griseus and Streptomyces violaceousniger strains, so I will try them as well.

And yes, I did try them on my roses, for active blackspot. Because I didn't have a control, it's hard to draw useful conclusions. But the blackspot did not spread after spraying with it. I had too many roses to really keep it up though.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by greentiger87

Hi Ray,

The yeast in this case are dead. They're meant to be a source of nutrients and growth factors. Any that are alive in the brewer's yeast powder will quickly be killed by the boiling or pressure cooking.

Common brewers yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) has only very small amounts of chitin in their cell walls.

The active organism here is whatever you inoculate with right before you turn on the air pump and let it sit. In my case, it's Streptomyces lydicus. I have access to useful Streptomyces griseus and Streptomyces violaceousniger strains, so I will try them as well.

And yes, I did try them on my roses, for active blackspot. Because I didn't have a control, it's hard to draw useful conclusions. But the blackspot did not spread after spraying with it. I had too many roses to really keep it up though.

OK, I wasn't sure if you were using a culture that could be activated or a spent one. Regardless my mistake, you were sterilizing the mixture beforehand. so it wouldn't matter anyway.
The yeast has a lot of vitamins, amino's and minerals in it from the dead organisms and the food sources they were grown in. I guess that's why it's used in other culture mediums. Good food supplement for people and animals too.

[Atomic Garden]

Thank you for all the info. Guess it is back to just plain old compost tea, which isn't a bad thing. That stuff WORKS!!!

[Randall]

Ran across this link this morning and this thread came to mind...This looks to be the easiest and most economical way to grow your own Mycorrhizae:

http://www.extension.org/pages/18627...ungus-inoculum

I hope this can help you out, Atomic Grow!

Randall

[RayR]

Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it.

Espoma Tomato-Tone
Espoma Bio-Tone
MycoGrow
Dr. Earth Organic Compost
Dr. Earth Organic 5
Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae

Errr...why would I want to think about spending any more time or money to grow my own?

[Randall]

Originally Posted by RayR

Errr...why would I want to think about spending any more time or money to grow my own?

I agree, Ray. With innoculation being a one time thing, in most cases you really only need a small amount. I think pumpkin growers use mycos multiple times because the vining plants are always setting new roots from nodes along the vine. I can see tomato growers who sprawl their plants finding benefits from multiple applications also.

For large scale production, I can see how growing your own mycos could save money. Any method that can clean up agriculture a bit and give it a nudge toward more sustainable methods is probably a good thing. As far as the home gardener goes, a little goes a long way.

[PA_Julia]

Randall,

You are absolutely correct concerning using mycos on pumpkin plants.

I'm growing giant pumpkins this year and use a mixture of mycos, worm castings and other things to assist in rooting when I bury pumpkin vines at each leaf node.

I've also added some as a side dressing to my sweet pepper plants to see it it would promote a more rapid and thicker growth.

We shall see!!


Julia

Originally Posted by Randall

I agree, Ray. With innoculation being a one time thing, in most cases you really only need a small amount. I think pumpkin growers use mycos multiple times because the vining plants are always setting new roots from nodes along the vine. I can see tomato growers who sprawl their plants finding benefits from multiple applications also.

For large scale production, I can see how growing your own mycos could save money. Any method that can clean up agriculture a bit and give it a nudge toward more sustainable methods is probably a good thing. As far as the home gardener goes, a little goes a long way.

Originally Posted by RayR

Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it.

Espoma Tomato-Tone
Espoma Bio-Tone
MycoGrow
Dr. Earth Organic Compost
Dr. Earth Organic 5
Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae
....

Does Tomato-Tone really have Myco in it? I don't think it does, but I could be mistaken. As for Bio-Tone, I think only the 'plus' version has Myco. I think most Dr Earth does have the Myco and soils are always hit or miss. The question some have asked about the soils is 'do the myco survive when no plants are present'? And if so, how much?

[FILMNET]

I used Bio-tone the best one with Mycorrhizae and my kitchen compost, Blood Meal in all holes in my garden Tomato and peppers. Now after 35 days the plants are taking off with some hot day coming now. Unbelievable looking potato leave plants Amason Chocolate and StumpOTWorld. a few are 9" long the plants are only 24' tall. Espoma gave me bags of new bags with Mycorrhizae, Garden -Tone, Plant-Tone. This are new bags

[RayR]

Originally Posted by eltex

Does Tomato-Tone really have Myco in it? I don't think it does, but I could be mistaken. As for Bio-Tone, I think only the 'plus' version has Myco. I think most Dr Earth does have the Myco and soils are always hit or miss. The question some have asked about the soils is 'do the myco survive when no plants are present'? And if so, how much?

You're right, Tomato-Tone doesn't have myco's in it, it has 7 species of bacteria.
Contains 895 colony forming units (CFU’s) per gram of the
following species:
Acidovorax facilis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus licheniformis . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus megaterium . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus pumilus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus subtilis. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Cellulomonas flavigena . . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram
Paenibacillus polymyxa. . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram

Bio-Tone Starter Plus has myco's & bacteria, Bio-Tone only has the bacteria.

Here's a pic of the ingredients in Dr. Earth Organic Compost, it's the same with the Organic 5 fertilizer I have. Dormant propagules can survive in dry potting soils but moist soils can be a problem. Dr. Earth uses what they call Pro-Moisture Hydrate to protect the microbes in their moist soils from temperature extremes.

[FILMNET]

Espoma Organic potting soils now have Myco-Tone in them now, i got a bag this spring for herb pots and some hanging pots, really nice loose clean soil if you would call it soil?

[greentiger87]

I know this is a slightly older thread, but had some thoughts.

While growing your own mycorrhizal fungi spores seems a bit too involved, growing pure-ish cultures of useful bacteria like Bacillus subtilis or Streptomyces lydicus should be pretty easy.

You'd basically use the same 5 gallon bucket setup people use for compost tea, but without the compost. Instead you fill the bucket with a nutrient solution and inoculate it with the product.

The nutrient solution should be very, very dilute, and might vary depending on what you're culturing. Fish emulsion and seaweed should work as an all purpose nutrient source though. You could add small amounts of powdered chitin (crabshells) or beta-glucan (mushrooms, oats) to promote the production of antifungal compounds, like chitinases and beta-glucanases.

You'd have to inoculate with the commercial product each time.. I don't think you could successfully keep a small amount of the culture to inoculate the next one. The purity would be too low, and eventually you'd be culturing who knows what.

Could this be illegal? This would just be for personal use of course.

[Wi-sunflower]

This thread is interesting and I wanted to be able to find it again. I always forget what forum threads are in since I usually view from the "new" posts link. So I had to post so I could find it in my "subscribed" list.

Carol

[royceag]

So, if you had to pick a single product to impart these fungi, which one would it be?

Originally Posted by RayR
"Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it.

Espoma Tomato-Tone
Espoma Bio-Tone
MycoGrow
Dr. Earth Organic Compost
Dr. Earth Organic 5
Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae"

I gather there's already one vote for Bio-Tone Plus. Also, are the effects the same for beans, tomatoes & pumpkins, I would imagine not? I ask because all of these for me could be better but, especially my pole beans.

Many thanks,
Royce