Direct-seeding next year

Originally Posted by brownrexx

It depends on how long your growing season is I guess. My seedlings that I set out in May are probably 6 weeks old and I get tomatoes and peppers in late July.

If I direct seeded my plants I guess that I wouldn't get fruits until late August or September and that is too late for me.

My soil is too cold for seedlings of warm weather plants like tomatoes or peppers to do much growing before the middle of May even under milk jugs.

How cold does it get when you would want to do it?

Hmm. You might be surprised what milk jugs can do if you haven't tried them, yet. The plants won't grow or sprout well, if at all, while the cap is on (I'd only recommend leaving it on if a storm is going to damage your plants or something; in my area, I just throw the cap away; you don't need the cap at all to protect the plants from any of the freezes I've tried them in). They need outside air to grow (and the lack of air may even kill them; some people probably confuse the damage they endure from lack of air with overheating, since they talk about how the sun can kill them easily even when it's cold, which is not my experience without a cap). I've had newly transplanted Yellow Pear tomatoes grow just fine when it was either 19 or 23° for the night-time low, in a warm February, under a milk jug (they were at the side of our house in shade, though, which may have had more protection than an area with direct sun). Those were transplants and not seeds, though, but seeds should be able to germinate under a milk jug and grow a considerable amount before the last frost. They do in my unheated, small greenhouse, in March and April, anyway (and it's basically like a giant milk jug). They take longer to sprout in March than April, though, but I think it's worth the head-start if the work involved isn't a big issue (although germination rates may be better in April).

The main challenge with starting seeds under milk jugs is perhaps watering them (and/or the soil issue I mentioned in another comment), especially if you put dirt around the jugs to lock them in place. I've found that I can water the interior of milk jugs with the mister option on my hose nozzle. So, as long as it's not too cold to be good for a hose, that could work.

You'll want to make sure any early milk jug plants and/or plants in a small, unheated greenhouse, have plenty of phosphorus, though. Plants seem to need more of it when it's cold (especially small plants; my Yellow Pear transplants weren't particularly small, and they were kind of old, seeded indoors extra-extra-early; those didn't need extra phosphorus—it must have been sufficient in the soil). Monopotassium phosphate seems helpful for my greenhouse.

Phosphorus is also important because it helps plants mature, which could be very important for areas with shorter seasons.

I'm personally not planning to do most of my direct-seeded plants under milk jugs (just unprotected, like weeds and hope they survive the elements like the reseeded tomatoes and weeds do). However, if I wanted to start them extra-early (as in before April 10th or so). I would use milk jugs, and I do want to do at least some plants like that. I might do more if I have an abundance of jugs (but I'm not counting on having them). Our average last frost date is about May 10th. This year it seems to have been later (or at least the risk of frost was there much later, whether or not it actually frosted).

I recommend removing the jugs as soon as it's warm enough for tomatoes.

I pulled up those Yellow Pear plants early because they had pithium on their stems while indoors, and although they didn't seem bothered by it outdoors, I didn't know much about pithium's level of contagiousness outdoors at that time; so, I pulled them up even though they looked healthy. They probably would have been fine. I think pithium is naturally in the outdoor soil anyway.

[sdambr]

I have been winter sowing in 2 ltr soda bottles for a couple of years, the results are amazing. Although I have not had too much success with tomatoes this way, but others have said it works great.

[MissS]

I direct seeded for many years. In all honesty, those started in the garden and those in the house produced fruit at the same time. Once the plants started growing well, you could never have guessed which one was which and I live in Wisconsin which has a short season.

[Worth1]

Might happen here by accident other than that it isn't going to happen unless you protect them.
Way too many weather swings.

Worth

[BigVanVader]

To direct seed in the south you would want to "winter sow" them. In other words prep your bed in the fall and plant the seeds. Then cover the bed with something until Spring. Once it gets warm enough remove the cover and let them germinate naturally.

I have done this with cherry tomatoes and they are almost impervious to disease. I usually just let them sprawl and they never have problems. I was somewhat amazed by it tbh. They grew fast, were healthy, and took zero upkeep. The milk jug thing would work but that is more effort. If you just cover the seeded bed with cardboard or anything to keep the dirt from washing away and the birds from getting the seeds you can "set it and forget it" so to speak.

[MrBig46]

I like that. I could try.
Vladimír

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

To direct seed in the south you would want to "winter sow" them. In other words prep your bed in the fall and plant the seeds. Then cover the bed with something until Spring. Once it gets warm enough remove the cover and let them germinate naturally.

I have done this with cherry tomatoes and they are almost impervious to disease. I usually just let them sprawl and they never have problems. I was somewhat amazed by it tbh. They grew fast, were healthy, and took zero upkeep. The milk jug thing would work but that is more effort. If you just cover the seeded bed with cardboard or anything to keep the dirt from washing away and the birds from getting the seeds you can "set it and forget it" so to speak.

I didn't think about covering them with cardboard before germination. That should insulate the soil, keep it moist, attract worms, and be a lot less work than using milk jugs to warm the soil. I've never tried sprouting tomatoes without light, though. Are there any caveats to that? Plus, the soil would still be flat.

Edit: I guess I misread your post. Sounds like you meant something similar, but different than my first thought, and longer-term. I was thinking putting out the cardboard in the spring when I want them to sprout; plus, I thought about taking it off only after they do sprout, but I think I understood that you weren't suggesting that.

[Worth1]

Seeds dont need light to sprout.
Worth

Originally Posted by Worth1

Seeds dont need light to sprout.
Worth

I've read that tomato seeds don't need light to sprout, but until now I haven't had reason to attempt it.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by shule1

I've read that tomato seeds don't need light to sprout, but until now I haven't had reason to attempt it.

The only reason I turn the lights on now is so they see light when they do sprout out of the soil.
In the real environment that would be every morning.
In the house never unless the lights were on.
Plus they are under the soil so they dont see light anyway.

Worth

Originally Posted by Worth1

The only reason I turn the lights on now is so they see light when they do sprout out of the soil.
In the real environment that would be every morning.
In the house never unless the lights were on.
Plus they are under the soil so they dont see light anyway.

Worth

I forgot that seeds seem to need air to sprout, to some degree, though. I wonder if they would get enough to sprout in a timely fashion under cardboard. I guess unless I plastered it to the ground, or something, they might be okay sprouting before taking it off.

[zipcode]

The problem with this method is that, for tomatoes, you lose a lot of time, at least one month. And they can produce all year, so you lose one month of production.

Originally Posted by zipcode

The problem with this method is that, for tomatoes, you lose a lot of time, at least one month. And they can produce all year, so you lose one month of production.

If you sprout them two or three weeks after the time you would normally start them indoors, shouldn't it amount to about the same, if you take things like hardening off (which you wouldn't have to do) and the need to substract time for adjusting to the transplant into consideration? I'd say those things can amount to up to a few weeks. Also, with direct-seeding, you normally end up with perfectly undisturbed roots, which may have long-term benefits. However, it is possible that plants from indoors mature some without growing new leaves during those periods that transplants endure (although I don't know that they do; it seems like they don't), I suppose.

My personal thought is that direct-seeding can certainly set you back at least a month, but that you can work around the issues there to prevent that from happening.

One thing about reseeded tomatoes is they might be more neglected on average (with regard to soil amendments) than transplants and purposefully direct-seeded plants. Plus, the soil may be more compacted. Plus, they may sprout a lot later than they are capable of sprouting, if you don't encourage them by tilling the soil and watering them or such. Reseeded plants are also often transplanted after sprouting. Direct-seeded tomatoes might lose some reputation due to stuff like that with reseeded tomatoes. People might be less likely to amend soil for direct-seeded seeds, too (which may be an issue).

Direct-seeded plants that sprout when it's colder probably need more phosphorus, too, in order to mature and grow as fast as indoor plants, perhaps. Phosphorus is said to be less available when it's cold, and it helps with plant maturity (as well as cold-tolerance and leaf size).

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by shule1

I forgot that seeds seem to need air to sprout, to some degree, though. I wonder if they would get enough to sprout in a timely fashion under cardboard. I guess unless I plastered it to the ground, or something, they might be okay sprouting before taking it off.

I don't leave the cardboard on once it gets warm. Its just for winter protection. Once it hits April I remove and let them come up as they please. I've only done it once so results may vary but I had good success when I tried it.

[zipcode]

They are nice and stocky little plants, that is true. Will they recover the time? Well, partly, but not that much. How much time is transplant shock? About a week, maybe 10 days. Hardening off is still growing.
Sure, try though, who knows, maybe they really will be more resistant.