Mycorrhizae..can I get more bang for my $$$? - Page 2

June 29, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it.

Espoma Tomato-Tone
Espoma Bio-Tone
MycoGrow
Dr. Earth Organic Compost
Dr. Earth Organic 5
Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae
....

Does Tomato-Tone really have Myco in it? I don't think it does, but I could be mistaken. As for Bio-Tone, I think only the 'plus' version has Myco. I think most Dr Earth does have the Myco and soils are always hit or miss. The question some have asked about the soils is 'do the myco survive when no plants are present'? And if so, how much?

FILMNET · June 29, 2012

I used Bio-tone the best one with Mycorrhizae and my kitchen compost, Blood Meal in all holes in my garden Tomato and peppers. Now after 35 days the plants are taking off with some hot day coming now. Unbelievable looking potato leave plants Amason Chocolate and StumpOTWorld. a few are 9" long the plants are only 24' tall. Espoma gave me bags of new bags with Mycorrhizae, Garden -Tone, Plant-Tone. This are new bags

RayR · June 29, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltex

Does Tomato-Tone really have Myco in it? I don't think it does, but I could be mistaken. As for Bio-Tone, I think only the 'plus' version has Myco. I think most Dr Earth does have the Myco and soils are always hit or miss. The question some have asked about the soils is 'do the myco survive when no plants are present'? And if so, how much?

You're right, Tomato-Tone doesn't have myco's in it, it has 7 species of bacteria.
Contains 895 colony forming units (CFU’s) per gram of the
following species:
Acidovorax facilis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus licheniformis . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus megaterium . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus pumilus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Bacillus subtilis. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 208 CFU’s per gram
Cellulomonas flavigena . . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram
Paenibacillus polymyxa. . . . . . . . . . . 21 CFU’s per gram

Bio-Tone Starter Plus has myco's & bacteria, Bio-Tone only has the bacteria.

Here's a pic of the ingredients in Dr. Earth Organic Compost, it's the same with the Organic 5 fertilizer I have. Dormant propagules can survive in dry potting soils but moist soils can be a problem. Dr. Earth uses what they call Pro-Moisture Hydrate to protect the microbes in their moist soils from temperature extremes.

FILMNET · June 30, 2012

Espoma Organic potting soils now have Myco-Tone in them now, i got a bag this spring for herb pots and some hanging pots, really nice loose clean soil if you would call it soil?

royceag · July 9, 2012

So, if you had to pick a single product to impart these fungi, which one would it be?

Originally Posted by RayR
"Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it.

Espoma Tomato-Tone
Espoma Bio-Tone
MycoGrow
Dr. Earth Organic Compost
Dr. Earth Organic 5
Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae"

I gather there's already one vote for Bio-Tone Plus. Also, are the effects the same for beans, tomatoes & pumpkins, I would imagine not? I ask because all of these for me could be better but, especially my pole beans.

Many thanks,
Royce

FILMNET · July 9, 2012

Epsoma Bio-Tone Plus

Bio-tone® Starter Plus 4-3-3

All natural plant food with bacteria, humates and mycorrhizae.
For enhanced root development.
In 4, 20 and 25 lb. bags.

» Product Details

royceag · July 9, 2012

Thanks Filmnet. They've got that at Lowes. I guess that's not for side dressing though, just at planting.

FILMNET · July 9, 2012

I got a bag free from Epsoma 4lb its the best around you could use it for side dressing but its expensive make sure if the plus one. They sent me bags also of Garden -tone and Plant-Tone which now has Bio-Tone Microbes in the bags here is 1 20lb bag they sent, this is a new package its not even on their website yet, this label in corner is new.

royceag · July 9, 2012

Lucky you with the freebies!! I think they just got the new bags of Garden-Tone at Lowes too because they had both on the shelves and it confused me (I'm sorta slow...) hehe!

amideutch · July 9, 2012

Quote:

So, if you had to pick a single product to impart these fungi, which one would it be?

Since we are talking Fungi it would be MycoGrow Soluable. Ami

royceag · July 9, 2012

Danke Ami! Will look for it directly. Best, Royce

FILMNET · July 9, 2012

I won a box last spring because i put my garden phots on there face book page, tee shirt and 4 bags Bio Tone, potting soil and the fish fertilizer, this spring we found the wheelbarrow from 1930s in our cellar. I took shot with there bags in it around our house and neighbors house,4- 20lg bags of Plant-Tone, Garden -Tone, Holly-Tone, potting soil and 2 spray bottles. i did post shots here of these.

royceag · July 9, 2012

Nice gifties for a stunning pic!

greentiger87 · September 8, 2012

I know this is a slightly older thread, but had some thoughts.

While growing your own mycorrhizal fungi spores seems a bit too involved, growing pure-ish cultures of useful bacteria like Bacillus subtilis or Streptomyces lydicus should be pretty easy.

You'd basically use the same 5 gallon bucket setup people use for compost tea, but without the compost. Instead you fill the bucket with a nutrient solution and inoculate it with the product.

The nutrient solution should be very, very dilute, and might vary depending on what you're culturing. Fish emulsion and seaweed should work as an all purpose nutrient source though. You could add small amounts of powdered chitin (crabshells) or beta-glucan (mushrooms, oats) to promote the production of antifungal compounds, like chitinases and beta-glucanases.

You'd have to inoculate with the commercial product each time.. I don't think you could successfully keep a small amount of the culture to inoculate the next one. The purity would be too low, and eventually you'd be culturing who knows what.

Could this be illegal? This would just be for personal use of course.

RayR · September 8, 2012

It's an interesting idea and would make a good experiment for someone with a powerful microscope.

Compost would already have an active population of bacteria and fungi, but commercial inoculants are sold as dormant spores in a carrier containing a food source and other compounds to encourage germination.
The question is: How long can you keep the bacterial populations alive and growing in a water/nutrient mix? Or is that not the best way to culture them? Bacillus subtilis and Streptomyces lydicus are also two vary different types of bacteria with vary different methods of colonization and reproduction, but both need a stable substrate to grow on, so I think you are right about not successfully keeping a small amount of the culture going for long in just a water/nutrient mix.

July 9, 2012	#21
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	Epsoma Bio-Tone Plus Bio-tone® Starter Plus 4-3-3 All natural plant food with bacteria, humates and mycorrhizae. For enhanced root development. In 4, 20 and 25 lb. bags. » Product Details

June 29, 2012	#17
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	I used Bio-tone the best one with Mycorrhizae and my kitchen compost, Blood Meal in all holes in my garden Tomato and peppers. Now after 35 days the plants are taking off with some hot day coming now. Unbelievable looking potato leave plants Amason Chocolate and StumpOTWorld. a few are 9" long the plants are only 24' tall. Espoma gave me bags of new bags with Mycorrhizae, Garden -Tone, Plant-Tone. This are new bags

June 30, 2012	#19
FILMNET Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: North Charleston,South Carolina, USA Posts: 1,803	Espoma Organic potting soils now have Myco-Tone in them now, i got a bag this spring for herb pots and some hanging pots, really nice loose clean soil if you would call it soil?

July 9, 2012	#20
royceag Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Charlotte, NC 7b Posts: 42	So, if you had to pick a single product to impart these fungi, which one would it be? Originally Posted by RayR "Randall, I was thinking about all the products that I used this season that already have Mycorrhizae innoculants in it. Espoma Tomato-Tone Espoma Bio-Tone MycoGrow Dr. Earth Organic Compost Dr. Earth Organic 5 Some potting soils that I have used to amend my containers also have Mycorrhizae" I gather there's already one vote for Bio-Tone Plus. Also, are the effects the same for beans, tomatoes & pumpkins, I would imagine not? I ask because all of these for me could be better but, especially my pole beans. Many thanks, Royce

September 8, 2012	#29
greentiger87 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Houston, TX - 9a Posts: 211	I know this is a slightly older thread, but had some thoughts. While growing your own mycorrhizal fungi spores seems a bit too involved, growing pure-ish cultures of useful bacteria like Bacillus subtilis or Streptomyces lydicus should be pretty easy. You'd basically use the same 5 gallon bucket setup people use for compost tea, but without the compost. Instead you fill the bucket with a nutrient solution and inoculate it with the product. The nutrient solution should be very, very dilute, and might vary depending on what you're culturing. Fish emulsion and seaweed should work as an all purpose nutrient source though. You could add small amounts of powdered chitin (crabshells) or beta-glucan (mushrooms, oats) to promote the production of antifungal compounds, like chitinases and beta-glucanases. You'd have to inoculate with the commercial product each time.. I don't think you could successfully keep a small amount of the culture to inoculate the next one. The purity would be too low, and eventually you'd be culturing who knows what. Could this be illegal? This would just be for personal use of course.

September 8, 2012	#30
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	It's an interesting idea and would make a good experiment for someone with a powerful microscope. Compost would already have an active population of bacteria and fungi, but commercial inoculants are sold as dormant spores in a carrier containing a food source and other compounds to encourage germination. The question is: How long can you keep the bacterial populations alive and growing in a water/nutrient mix? Or is that not the best way to culture them? Bacillus subtilis and Streptomyces lydicus are also two vary different types of bacteria with vary different methods of colonization and reproduction, but both need a stable substrate to grow on, so I think you are right about not successfully keeping a small amount of the culture going for long in just a water/nutrient mix.