Going organic-ish without large expense - Page 2

Redbaron · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Magruder

Since I mulch my grass clippings back into my grass, I don't have grass clippings to use.

What commercial organic fertilizer could I use during the season? Could I just add more Plant-tone around the plant?

You could, but I doubt it is necessary if you use the right amount to begin with. They do have fish emulsion that you can attach to the end of your hose and give a boost later in the year if needed. Compost tea works too. But I highly recommend figuring out a way to use grass clippings. Maybe a neighbor who bags but doesn't weed-n-feed? Or a neighbor with a different type of mower you can borrow once or twice till you have enough grass clippings? That's what I had to do the last couple years. Borrow the neighbors mower, and rake up the clippings. Then once I had my garden mulched, I went back to my own mulching mower. This year my old mower finally bit the big one and I got one of those combination types that can either bag or mulch. (Troy Built TB110) I am VERY happy with it!

Run the bagger till I have what I need in clippings, then remove the bag and mulch mow the rest! Very slick!

Steve Magruder · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbaron

You could, but I doubt it is necessary if you use the right amount to begin with. They do have fish emulsion that you can attach to the end of your hose and give a boost later in the year if needed. Compost tea works too. But I highly recommend figuring out a way to use grass clippings. Maybe a neighbor who bags but doesn't weed-n-feed? Or a neighbor with a different type of mower you can borrow once or twice till you have enough grass clippings? That's what I had to do the last couple years. Borrow the neighbors mower, and rake up the clippings. Then once I had my garden mulched, I went back to my own mulching mower. This year my old mower finally bit the big one and I got one of those combination types that can either bag or mulch. (Troy Built TB110) I am VERY happy with it!

Run the bagger till I have what I need in clippings, then remove the bag and mulch mow the rest! Very slick!

Thank you for sticking with this thread as I'm very overwhelmed and confused by so many aspects of organic gardening.

Actually, my lawn mower can bag... it's just that I'm accustomed to mulching to re-feed the lawn. I haven't done a weed/feed since last year, so I assume I could start bagging my grass with my next cut and do it until I get enough to use in the garden.

What do you think of using cardboard as mulch? I have a steady supply of that from receiving packages in the mail. Would that work well in tandem with the grass, especially if it's just used in the pathways between the rows?

I also have black landscaping tarp that could be used.

I'll look into fish emulsion and compost tea for boosts later in the season.

COMPOSTER · April 25, 2013

Yes to using more Plantone if you think you need it. I think in general most gardeners like to be doing something, just be careful that you are not overdoing it. You may want to keep in mind that organic products will work slower than chemicals so you need to be patient to see the results, especially when the soil is still relatively cool. I know this is not relevant for this spring, but personaly, I prepare the soil with organic fertilizer and compost at the end of the growing season. Then in the spring I work some compost in the planting hole at time of tranplant and then work some more in the top inch or so of soil around the plants when they start setting fruit. Seems to work good for me.

COMPOSTER · April 25, 2013

Yes to the Planttone if you think you need it. I think most gardeners always want to be doin something so go for it. Just be careful not to over do it. You may want to keep in mind that organic fertilizers will act slower than chemical fetilizers, especially in cool soil. So you will need to be patient.

I know this is not relevant for this spring but may be a course of action for next year. I prepare the soil at the end of the growing season with about 3/4 in of compost and an organic fertilzer. In the spring I work compost into the planting hole whan transplanting and then top dress with compost around the time the plants start setting fruit. This seems to work well for me.

Glenn

bughunter99 · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Magruder

Thank you for sticking with this thread as I'm very overwhelmed and confused by so many aspects of organic gardening.

Actually, my lawn mower can bag... it's just that I'm accustomed to mulching to re-feed the lawn. I haven't done a weed/feed since last year, so I assume I could start bagging my grass with my next cut and do it until I get enough to use in the garden.

What do you think of using cardboard as mulch? I have a steady supply of that from receiving packages in the mail. Would that work well in tandem with the grass, especially if it's just used in the pathways between the rows?

I also have black landscaping tarp that could be used.

I'll look into fish emulsion and compost tea for boosts later in the season.

Cardboard is good only if you have enough weight to keep it from flying all over the neighborhood in the next storm. Otherwise its a pain.

I use Neptunes Gold Fish/Kelp emulsion. Its very concentrated so goes a long way.

If you have a compost pile, that is a great way to get your plants off to a solid start-a scoop of compost per hole. Your own compost is not the same as purchased stuff which is sketchy at best. Yes compost tea is a good pick up too, though you'll notice that as your soil gets healthier, plants typically don't need the mid-season hits of fertilizer any more. I set mine up in the spring and give them nothing but water and love after that.

Redbaron · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Magruder

Thank you for sticking with this thread as I'm very overwhelmed and confused by so many aspects of organic gardening.

Actually, my lawn mower can bag... it's just that I'm accustomed to mulching to re-feed the lawn. I haven't done a weed/feed since last year, so I assume I could start bagging my grass with my next cut and do it until I get enough to use in the garden.

What do you think of using cardboard as mulch? I have a steady supply of that from receiving packages in the mail. Would that work well in tandem with the grass, especially if it's just used in the pathways between the rows?

I also have black landscaping tarp that could be used.

I'll look into fish emulsion and compost tea for boosts later in the season.

For a small garden like you have I prefer newspaper. I have used cardboard too though. As bughunter said, cardboard needs more mulch covering it to hold it down, but it does work.

Main thing is just go with something. There are almost infinite ways to grow your garden. Different doesn't mean wrong. Whatever works for you. It probably wont be perfect the first year. Just make improvements each year till you find what works best for you. In the meantime enjoy your harvest!

Steve Magruder · April 25, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbaron

For a small garden like you have I prefer newspaper. I have used cardboard too though. As bughunter said, cardboard needs more mulch covering it to hold it down, but it does work.

Main thing is just go with something. There are almost infinite ways to grow your garden. Different doesn't mean wrong. Whatever works for you. It probably wont be perfect the first year. Just make improvements each year till you find what works best for you. In the meantime enjoy your harvest!

I don't get the paper, but perhaps I could find someone who does get it.

Re: cardboard, with all the rocks I've dug up from tilling, I imagine some of those would work well as weights on the cardboard. Or, I could use landscaping staples. Or both. Until I have other grass/mulch to cover it with.

This isn't my first attempt at a serious garden, just the first one where I'm going organic-ish, and it's the largest plot and number of plants I've done so far. It should be fun, especially with the new heirloom varieties I'm trying.

Chrissykin · April 25, 2013

You can buy plant tone and Neptunes Harvest at decent prices and flat rate shipping at Ozbo. I use them a lot and have always had great service.

COMPOSTER · April 27, 2013

I Love the idea of using your grass clippings if they are herbacide/pestacide free. You probably only need to collect your clippings a couple times a year. So you don't need to stop mulching your grass all year just a few times. I collect mine twice in the Spring and two or three times in the Fall. I think what I read into some of the posts, greatly appreciate and try to do, is to use as many of your home generated resources as you possibly can. Perhaps we focus too much on purchased imputs instead of working with what nature has provided for us right under our own feet. My philosophy is the simpler the better.

Steve Magruder · April 27, 2013

I already saved one round of grass clippings and got newspapers from my mother.

I also got some Plant-tone from Lowe's.

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I'll continue reviewing other ideas for this season and getting ready for the next one.

dice · May 1, 2013

If you read the entire Plant-tone label, it says to amend
the soil initially with X amount per so many square feet,
then add more monthly per plant, per foot of row, or
per square feet of growing area. As your soil becomes
more fertile over the years from amending it with
organic matter, you can back off how much bagged
fertilizer (if any) that you use, because your plants will
still be getting nutrients from fertilizer that you used
last year (minus what your garden loses in tropical
downpours, floods, etc, which wash nitrogen in particular
down below the root zone).

As for buying stuff like composts and manures, in these
days of aminopyralid and clopyralid broad leaf herbicides
used on hay fields, one needs to be cautious:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/bioassay.html
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...vis#post342794
(Alfalfa will not be contaminated, because the herbicides
damage or kill alfalfa plants.)

COMPOSTER · May 2, 2013

Dice, thanks for posting on the alfalfa being killed by the herbacide. I have some alfalfa cubes I bought a few seasons ago that I have been reluctant to add to my compost due to the issue of contamination. I am getting tired of looking at the bag and not being sure if it is going to be harmful.

Glenn

dice · May 2, 2013

Yes, hay, meaning grass hay (timothy, orchard grass, etc), is at
risk of contamination, which is where the contamination risk in
manure and composted manure comes from (aminopyralid
passes right through livestock undigested), but bales of alfalfa,
alfalfa meal, alfalfa pellets, etc, would not contain these
herbicide chemicals.

I do not know what all is used on wheat, oat, and rye fields for
weed control, so I do not know whether straw is a risky mulch
to use these days.

Dewayne mater · May 2, 2013

Don't have a product recommendation for you, but, I do typically add something once the plants are large, have significant fruit set and the conditions are still good for additional fruit set. In N. Tx. our growing season is short and we have to maximize fruit set before the heat shuts everything down. Adding fert. somewhere in the process seems to boost growth and flowering and that's what I'm looking for when I add. Typically, I'll add with foliar feeds like seaweed/fishmeal combos in mid May, late May and mid June. After then, its waste. I have this unproven observation that a fair number of insects and possibly some critters are not fans of the smell of seaweed and fish and tend towards other less smelly options.

Dewayne mater

Tracydr · May 2, 2013

I like using Starbucks and manure, added in the winter. Grass clippings or leaves if I get them from neighbors, although I think grass clips introduce Bermuda seeds to my garden. I also add lots of straw for mulch, along with using the new paper layers to prevent weeds in the summer. The paper and straw get tilled under in fall and add to the organic matter.
I do add a bit of organic fertilizer, either Epsoma or Bat Guano, early in the season. I also love to use fish emulsion mixed with kelp for a wonderful quick boost.
The kelp is great for trace elements and really seems to boost plant growth/ strength. I use it if the plants have any trouble with insects, disease or failure to thrive, plus just on a regular schedule.
Last weekend I did a fish emulsion/kelp boost and I couldn't believe the flowers, growth and fruit set in only four days!

May 1, 2013	#26
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	If you read the entire Plant-tone label, it says to amend the soil initially with X amount per so many square feet, then add more monthly per plant, per foot of row, or per square feet of growing area. As your soil becomes more fertile over the years from amending it with organic matter, you can back off how much bagged fertilizer (if any) that you use, because your plants will still be getting nutrients from fertilizer that you used last year (minus what your garden loses in tropical downpours, floods, etc, which wash nitrogen in particular down below the root zone). As for buying stuff like composts and manures, in these days of aminopyralid and clopyralid broad leaf herbicides used on hay fields, one needs to be cautious: http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/ http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/aminopyralid/bioassay.html http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...vis#post342794 (Alfalfa will not be contaminated, because the herbicides damage or kill alfalfa plants.) __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; May 1, 2013 at 05:39 PM. Reason: clarity

May 2, 2013	#28
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Yes, hay, meaning grass hay (timothy, orchard grass, etc), is at risk of contamination, which is where the contamination risk in manure and composted manure comes from (aminopyralid passes right through livestock undigested), but bales of alfalfa, alfalfa meal, alfalfa pellets, etc, would not contain these herbicide chemicals. I do not know what all is used on wheat, oat, and rye fields for weed control, so I do not know whether straw is a risky mulch to use these days. __________________ -- alias

April 25, 2013	#18
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	Yes to using more Plantone if you think you need it. I think in general most gardeners like to be doing something, just be careful that you are not overdoing it. You may want to keep in mind that organic products will work slower than chemicals so you need to be patient to see the results, especially when the soil is still relatively cool. I know this is not relevant for this spring, but personaly, I prepare the soil with organic fertilizer and compost at the end of the growing season. Then in the spring I work some compost in the planting hole at time of tranplant and then work some more in the top inch or so of soil around the plants when they start setting fruit. Seems to work good for me.

April 25, 2013	#23
Chrissykin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: IL Posts: 87	You can buy plant tone and Neptunes Harvest at decent prices and flat rate shipping at Ozbo. I use them a lot and have always had great service.

April 27, 2013	#24
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	I Love the idea of using your grass clippings if they are herbacide/pestacide free. You probably only need to collect your clippings a couple times a year. So you don't need to stop mulching your grass all year just a few times. I collect mine twice in the Spring and two or three times in the Fall. I think what I read into some of the posts, greatly appreciate and try to do, is to use as many of your home generated resources as you possibly can. Perhaps we focus too much on purchased imputs instead of working with what nature has provided for us right under our own feet. My philosophy is the simpler the better.

April 27, 2013	#25
Steve Magruder Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Louisville, Kentucky (Zone 6B) Posts: 89	I already saved one round of grass clippings and got newspapers from my mother. I also got some Plant-tone from Lowe's. Thanks for the ideas everyone. I'll continue reviewing other ideas for this season and getting ready for the next one.

May 2, 2013	#29
Dewayne mater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2008 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 1,212	Don't have a product recommendation for you, but, I do typically add something once the plants are large, have significant fruit set and the conditions are still good for additional fruit set. In N. Tx. our growing season is short and we have to maximize fruit set before the heat shuts everything down. Adding fert. somewhere in the process seems to boost growth and flowering and that's what I'm looking for when I add. Typically, I'll add with foliar feeds like seaweed/fishmeal combos in mid May, late May and mid June. After then, its waste. I have this unproven observation that a fair number of insects and possibly some critters are not fans of the smell of seaweed and fish and tend towards other less smelly options. Dewayne mater

May 2, 2013	#30
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	I like using Starbucks and manure, added in the winter. Grass clippings or leaves if I get them from neighbors, although I think grass clips introduce Bermuda seeds to my garden. I also add lots of straw for mulch, along with using the new paper layers to prevent weeds in the summer. The paper and straw get tilled under in fall and add to the organic matter. I do add a bit of organic fertilizer, either Epsoma or Bat Guano, early in the season. I also love to use fish emulsion mixed with kelp for a wonderful quick boost. The kelp is great for trace elements and really seems to boost plant growth/ strength. I use it if the plants have any trouble with insects, disease or failure to thrive, plus just on a regular schedule. Last weekend I did a fish emulsion/kelp boost and I couldn't believe the flowers, growth and fruit set in only four days!