Champagne Cherry

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by lj in ny

I received a response from Nancy at Sunset Produce in Canada- their Champagne cherry is RED and she said that their Gourmet Medly is a mix of grape and cherry tomatoes that changes throughout the season depending on availabilty. So what they are offering isn't the same as the Champagne Cherry we've been discussing. So the beat goes on...

Yes, the beat does go on.

Terry got her CC seeds from both France and Solana Seeds in Canada. Terra Edibles and Solana both were offering a light colored CC and both are in Canada. Ventmarin in France called it a "cerise" ( cherry) and showed a light colored CC.

I have a problem with this variety originating in France and being called Champagne Cherry instead of Champagne Cerise, or the reverse.

So yes, we have an answer from Sunset, and thanks for that, but for me it doesn't solve the problem of all places who offer seeds for CC showing a light colored cherry whereas Sunset is the only one calling it red.

Hopefully some comparison growouts will help solve this problem, if there is indeed a problem here, and I tend to think there is.

[Wi-sunflower]

whereas Sunset is the only one calling it red.


I think the only problem is the fact that Sunset is simply trying to create a brand name and had no idea there already was a variety with that name. Their cherry is obviously not the same variety and most likely some hybrid they may have an exclusive on the seeds or may just have re-named for this.

An example of the hubris of big companies that think they are the "be all and end all" of something.

Carol

[carolyn137]

I'm determined to solve this wonderful mystery so just e-mailed Angelo Dorny who is in either Belgium or France and someone I know, to see what he might know.

And then I think I'll e-mail Terra Edibles and perhaps Solana Seeds too, to see what they say.

And there a couple of more in Europe that I might consider contacting if no answers come from Angelo to start with or Terra Edibles or Solana Seeds.

And onward we go, but I have miles to go in terms of packing tomato seed right now.

[matermaniac]

I received some seed from Farmall today for both. I planted 10 seeds each in Jiffy seed starter and have them on a heat mat.

I will be keeping results as they develop and post them.

[stormymater]

Will post as they progress.

[amberroses]

Ok, so I just grew champage cherry and coyote side by side under the same conditions. They look identical to me. I couldn't tell them apart. They grew to a similar size at a similar rate. I tried to pick two that looked equally ripe for a taste test. Champagne cherry seem a little less sweet and a little more tart. Coyote had a little more of that classic tomato taste. Although they appeared to be equally ripe to me (same color), maybe a different level of ripeness caused the difference. My conclusion is that I could draw no definitive conclusions

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by amberroses

Ok, so I just grew champage cherry and coyote side by side under the same conditions. They look identical to me. I couldn't tell them apart. They grew to a similar size at a similar rate. I tried to pick two that looked equally ripe for a taste test. Champagne cherry seem a little less sweet and a little more tart. Coyote had a little more of that classic tomato taste. Although they appeared to be equally ripe to me (same color), maybe a different level of ripeness caused the difference. My conclusion is that I could draw no definitive conclusions

Thanks so much for your feedback and I hope that others will also report on what they found.

I thought it was interesting that you said they looked identical, b'c it's darn hard to attribute a specific taste when comparing two varieties such as these two, and I know you recognized that as well which you summed up by saying that you had no definitive conclusions.

As I recall Adam had said that they looked identical to him as well.

[azgirl]

I received seeds from Farmall as well. Have one nice plant of each in the ground. So far, the coyote is a much bigger plant (twice the size). Both are setting fruit, but none ripe yet. My growth is not equal (at the moment) and they are right next to one another.

[amberroses]

Ok, further update. I have tried some more taste tests and given some to my mom and we both agree that they taste different. Champagne cherry has a slight "mushroomy" taste and coyote has more of a tangy tomato taste. They still look identical in my garden. I am edging toward concluding they are different, but I still have no definitive proof.

[azgirl]

I have been picking lots of tomatoes from both the Champagne cherry and Coyote. The plants have been growing side by side. Initially Coyote was a much larger plant, but the CC has caught up and they are currently equal in size. The tomatoes appear to be fairly equal in production, with the Coyote maybe having a slight edge for higher production. The color and size is very similar/identical to one another.

For taste (so I don't mix them up), I have been picking from one plant at a time with each plant being assigned its own bowl and then having a taste comparison. To date, I've made my family and neighbors all taste. So far, we all agree that they taste DIFFERENT.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by azgirl

I have been picking lots of tomatoes from both the Champagne cherry and Coyote. The plants have been growing side by side. Initially Coyote was a much larger plant, but the CC has caught up and they are currently equal in size. The tomatoes appear to be fairly equal in production, with the Coyote maybe having a slight edge for higher production. The color and size is very similar/identical to one another.

For taste (so I don't mix them up), I have been picking from one plant at a time with each plant being assigned its own bowl and then having a taste comparison. To date, I've made my family and neighbors all taste. So far, we all agree that they taste DIFFERENT.

Thanks for the update Melissa.

But I have to say that since taste is personal and perceptual and actually a human genetic component is involved with taste perception, I'm a bit surprised that everyone that tasted the two agreed on taste and said they tastged differently.

And as the season progresses I hope we get even more feedback here.

Will we solve the mystery or won't we, that's the question.

[lj in ny]

I'm growing both this year too. My CC is a bit taller and I've harvested 5- 0.1oz fruit. Coyote doesn't have any ripe ones yet. I'm growing them both in an earthtainer, side by side. I'm interested in seeing how they compare taste-wise. They look pretty much the same, CC is a little taller and seems to be a little bushier but no major differences yet.

[tommytonk]

uote=farmall;160942]As Carolyn said above I did grow both varieties last year and I could not tell the difference between the two. This is why I did not list the CC, but I have about 3/4 a pound of seed and plenty of Coyote so is anyone wants to grow the both of them side by side PM me and I will send You seeds of both. They both were huge plants for me and the foilage was much like our Yellow Cherry on the both of them. The fruit was almost white at the top and a dirty yellow at the bottom on both varieties and I could not tell a differance in taste[/quote]

[austinnhanasmom]

I grew both this year and they look and taste identical; in my rudimentary taste test.

Same (seeds received in trade, from separate swappers, for both) = leaf shape, height, dtm, ripe color

I was thinking that neither needed to be in my 2011 garden and am now being over ruled by the husband. Normally, he doesn't form a useful opinion - just says they are all good.

I have both fermented, dried and available, in case anyone wants to do this test grow.

[Wi-sunflower]

I have 2 samples of Coyote and 4 samples of Champagne all growing in several rows next to each other. One of each are from Gleckler. The others from trades here.

I haven't fround where all the varieties change just yet (a weed thing) but of those tasted the Gleckler's 2 did taste the same. But the other Coyote sample definately tasted different and the best to me.

Some of the samples seemed to be a bit more prone to cracking than others, but I'm not sure which right now. The cracking could also just be the year as I've had some cracking problems with some other cherries that didn't seem crack prone last year.

Over all, it will make a great cherry for plant sales, but the small size (slightly bigger than currant varieties) and cracking make both a poor variety for selling the fruit, too much labor.

Carol