Please explain F1, F2, F3...

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

We've several threads on this subject, but here's the basics. We'll use Celebrity as the example.

If I buy some seeds from, say, Ferry Morse, those seeds will be F1. That means it's a hybrid and is unlikely to reproduce the same size, shape, taste, etc is you save seeds from that F1.

But, if you did save seeds from that F1, then those seeds would be the F2. Grow out the F2 seeds and harvest fruit and save the seeds from the F2 plant and those seeds will be F3.

Etc. Etc.

Ted

Thanks Lee and Ted.

So if I understand correctly anytime you do a cross, those seeds will always be F1. But a grow-out, selecting the best traits for it to remain stable, consistent, then produces F2, and so on....?

[ContainerTed]

Yes, Willy. Think of generations from the original with the original being the #1 generation.

And I DO recommend taking the time to read the link that Lee posted. There is a lot more info there you will find useful.

Ted

[OneoftheEarls]

yep....F2 etc. is the following generation AFTER the cross

rule of thumb is F7 is stable enough to call "stable" lol

Originally Posted by TZ-OH6

A little background...

For crosses you have parents (P) and offspring (Filial generations) F1 = children of parents, F2 = grandchildren, F3 = great grandchildren, etc.

snip

Thanks OH6, that helps me understand [and picture] the basics, which enables me to form a foundation for understanding the more complicated genetics and genetic-speak conversation.

Thanks Ted. I did read it, thoroughly: And I will probably read it a few more times just to help myself remember without thinking.

Terry

Originally Posted by OneoftheEarls

yep....F2 etc. is the following generation AFTER the cross

rule of thumb is F7 is stable enough to call "stable" lol

Thanks Earl. That's a tidbit that I did not know.

Terry

[Hotwired]

Originally Posted by AZRuss

I have a forum acquaintance who swears that she is on Brandy Boy F6 and that she can observe absolutely no difference among the generations.

If you can select the right seed each time then it may be possible. It's possible to win the lottery six consecutive times too. Developing a stable hybrid with identical traits to the F1 is very similar to that. I'm a perfectionist so Mendelian Genetics is not for me. I'll happily stick to my heirlooms, though this is an incredibly interesting subject to me.

[Hotwired]

I have been gardening for 60 years and suddenly find some new terms popping up. Some seed companies are advertising their seeds as "Heritage" and "Created Heirloom". They are actually F-1 offspring of two heirloom tomatoes. I always thought that an F-1 IS a cross between two Heirlooms. Sounds like a way to increase their prices to me.
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Comfrey by any other name still smells really bad....

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Hotwired

I have been gardening for 60 years and suddenly find some new terms popping up. Some seed companies are advertising their seeds as "Heritage" and "Created Heirloom". They are actually F-1 offspring of two heirloom tomatoes. I always thought that an F-1 IS a cross between two Heirlooms. Sounds like a way to increase their prices to me.
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Comfrey by any other name still smells really bad....

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by huntsman

Well, I have a better idea now, thank you.

I had the idea that an F1 would produce fruit whose seeds would not even grow.

...

That's the message that some seed houses want you to believe.

[Lilaalil]

I have a volunteer cherry tomato plant in my yard that I really like, so I went ahead and planted seeds from its fruit. But I also have some hybrid cherry tomatoes in my yard, very close by, and the bees are very active on the flowers, so it's quite possible that they cross-pollinated.

I don't mind terribly if the fruit doesn't end up true to seed, though I would really like to get that same tomato as the volunteer. But the idea of plants with no fruit worries me. So IF the hybrids did pollinate volunteer, and IF they carry male sterility gene, would my next generation still be able to bear fruit, assuming that I have other tomato plants in the yard that do not have the male sterility gene, and the bees are still zooming around doing their job?

Sorry, this is all very new to me. I sprouted the seeds and then thought about it after Which brought me to this forum. I just went out and took some cuttings of that original volunteer today, and will root them to make some true clones, but I'm interested to know what will happen with the ones I sprouted from seed.

[Doug9345]

First welcome to Tomatoville. Tomatoes cross some but not a lot because they tend to self pollinate. Others are much more knowledgeable than I am, but a lot of people are saving seed from hybrid tomatoes and getting tomatoes. Some offspring are closer than others to the parents. I prediction is that you'll get cherry tomatoes off the seed you saved. If you post what hybrid you grew thee is a good chance someone here will know something about it.

[Lilaalil]

Thanks Doug. That's good to know that they usually self-pollinate.

The hybrid cherries I grew are called Komohana. They were developed by the University of Hawaii to do well in our humid, rainy climate and nematodey soil. The volunteer popped up before I had even started growing tomatoes here (I was in an apartment for years before this and have only recently been able to have a yard and start gardening again). So I have no idea what kind the volunteer is.... something a bird dropped, but it's very nice for a Hawaii tomato.

[Doug9345]

I just looked at the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources site where they sell seeds. http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/seed/seeds.asp They don't list Komohana as a hybrid.

[Carolyn C1]

Can you confirm for me whether, when crossing two parent plants, it is conventional to list the female plant first? As in "mother" x "father" = F1 hybrid?