Growing produce indoors?

[RobinB]

I always grow some micro tomatoes, greens, herbs, and last year, I grew a cayenne pepper plant in a 1 gallon pot. We have a LOT of sunny days here in the high desert... plus I have a homemade light rack (wire rack, shop lights hanging from S hooks).

Robin

[bower]

Winter greens are easy indoors. I have CFL shop lights hung in a window for whatever extra natural light they may get (not much in December!) and leave the lights on 24 hrs for lettuce, mustard greens etc. which are ready to cut in 30 days, and come again. "Cool white" or "daylight" (high colour temperature) bulbs are best for that. The CFL's use trivial amount of power - when I started using these lights in windows I found it was brighter than the overhead lights and my power costs actually went down.

The trick with CFL's is that they do not have much penetration into the 'canopy' of leaves, so are not very effective for anything more than 4-6 inches tall. Mixed greens for cut and come again are the perfect winter crop, in a cool room if possible so they don't dry out too quickly. Bok choy is prone to bolt if it is at all crowded or the soil gets dry, hasn't worked indoors for me as yet.

I have tried peppers and toms in the winter, and they weren't fooled by my CFL's - they didn't produce any fruit until we got ten hours of sunlight per day again. Ditto for radishes, which did not make a radish! Tomato seedlings I started in the dead of winter got six inches tall and then stopped. On the other hand, pepper plants brought indoors with green fruit in October did ripen them very happily right through January, with a low colour temperature light ("warm white" or incandescent-like colours), so I had fresh winter peppers one year that way.

Pests can be tough though, when you bring mature plants in. It's a big advantage to have some down time with no plants in the house or greenhouse for a sanitation cycle, pretty much necessary if you don't use pesticides.

[Worth1]

The trick to growing indoors is to keep the plants in an area that isn't effected by other lights, any light.

The amount of daylight hours has a very big effect on when certain plants bloom or bolt.
Some plants go all summer and bloom when the daylight hours shorten others bloom when the hours get longer.

With the plants that bloom in the fall with short daylight hours even the smallest interruption of darkness will keep them from blooming.

With this knowledge you can use it to your advantage.
Even plants of the same species have different daylight hour bloom times.
Onions are one of them.


As for florescent lights.
You can, 'and I have, grown huge plants with them, you are not restricted to short leafy vegetables.

The room or area you grow in should be big enough to hold the plants with flat white walls and ceiling.
This will reflect the light back into the plants.

Only water enough the wet the soil not so much as to have lots of runoff.
Runoff will deplete the soil of nutrients

Don't bring plants from outside.
This will introduce pests into you grow area
Start your seeds indoors and use sterile soil.
As for cost verses productivity.

It is everybody's right to spend as much money as they want on things.
Sometimes it is worth the experience just so you gain knowledge.
You wont get that out on a grocery store.

Worth

[bower]

Thanks for the tip, Worth, OMG, now I want a dedicated windowless room to paint white, hum, tidly, hum, pom.....

Do you position the lights low and near the plants? Or in the ceiling, for the overall 'day length deception'? heh heh. How many lights per sq yd? (4 ft shop lights are the cheap ones here, with 2 bare bulbs.. so lets say spacing.. close together or how far apart..?).

[mdvpc]

You position the lights about 4-6 inches from the plant, moving the light up as the plants grow. Some folks put them even closer, but I have never needed to do that.

[Worth1]

4 foot bright daylight as many lumens as you can get.

A rule of thumb is at least 40 watts per square foot.

A friend of mine has a computerized lighting set up that mimics storms the time of year and the sun setting and rising.
It is all LED and it is for his salt water fish tank.


Keep the lights as close as you can.

Worth

[Stowaway]

Originally Posted by Worth1

plus I am not home everyday.

A decent light timer is about ten bucks. That's how much mine cost, and so far it seems decent!

I'm just finishing up a setup with eight T8 bulbs and one cfl spotlight. Total lumen output should be over 25k. It's in a strange little room in my new place that wouldn't otherwise be used for anything, so I coated the walls with mylar (I got that tip from the pot growers). There's also a window that gets a little light, but not much.

If the manufacturers are to be believed, it will cost less than $15 a month to run. I spend that much on herbs alone, so I figure it should just about pay for its energy cost. But for me, it's not about the cost, it's about the hobby. I'm one of those people who gets blue during the winter; I'm hoping that being able to get my hands dirty and grow some things will help.

[Doug9345]

Assuming that you pay the same for electricity that we do which is about 17 cents per kilowatt hour, that each lamp is 35 watts including energy lost in the ballast, and that they are on 16 hours per day, I calculate $23 per month.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Stowaway

But for me, it's not about the cost, it's about the hobby. I'm one of those people who gets blue during the winter; I'm hoping that being able to get my hands dirty and grow some things will help.

Stowaway, it's a good plan! I get disoriented and sluggish and sleepy in the dark days - had a much better winter when I put grow lights in every window, and plants under them for me to fuss over. I had a lot more energy, and spent less hours per day (read: all waking hours day) huddled in front of one 'glowing screen' or another.
I also read recently that certain soil bacteria were found experimentally to have antidepressant activity. And they wonder where the incurable optimism of gardeners, of all people, could come from.. Best of luck with your winter garden.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/66840.php

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Stowaway

A decent light timer is about ten bucks. That's how much mine cost, and so far it seems decent!

I'm just finishing up a setup with eight T8 bulbs and one cfl spotlight. Total lumen output should be over 25k. It's in a strange little room in my new place that wouldn't otherwise be used for anything, so I coated the walls with mylar (I got that tip from the pot growers). There's also a window that gets a little light, but not much.

If the manufacturers are to be believed, it will cost less than $15 a month to run. I spend that much on herbs alone, so I figure it should just about pay for its energy cost. But for me, it's not about the cost, it's about the hobby. I'm one of those people who gets blue during the winter; I'm hoping that being able to get my hands dirty and grow some things will help.

I have had timers for years.
Right now I could program my controller to change the amount of light the plants get by the month day and time of day.
In other words I could program it to run 16 hours a day and then without me being home it would automatically change to 10 hours.
On lets say 10:37 AM on December 5th.
The problem is there is no way I will automate water in my house.
I dont want to come home to a flood.
Even with a master valve.
Yet.


Worth

[Doug9345]

Worth my though is to work out of a tank and not the pressurized water system. Let's say your plants use a gallon a day total and you are gone two weeks at a time, use a 15 gallon tank and a little electric pump. Even if the tank burst you'd only have 15 gallon or whatever to deal with. If you put it in a garage or some other area where it wasn't going to freeze then even a leaking 55 gallon drum would cause that much problems.

[Stowaway]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Assuming that you pay the same for electricity that we do which is about 17 cents per kilowatt hour, that each lamp is 35 watts including energy lost in the ballast, and that they are on 16 hours per day, I calculate $23 per month.

$23 still seems reasonable to me, especially considering that part of the point is to grow things I would have had to buy anyway (never mind the upfront cost of the setup, which I don't expect to ever "earn back"). But does this mean the manufacturer "estimated energy cost" is BS? I just re-did my calculation and it came to $15 almost exactly.

Originally Posted by Worth1

I have had timers for years.
Right now I could program my controller to change the amount of light the plants get by the month day and time of day.
In other words I could program it to run 16 hours a day and then without me being home it would automatically change to 10 hours.
On lets say 10:37 AM on December 5th.
The problem is there is no way I will automate water in my house.
I dont want to come home to a flood.
Even with a master valve.
Yet.


Worth

I should have known better, Worth! I think other than the pot growers, the people I've learned the most from about how to do this are you and Hotwired.

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by Stowaway

$23 still seems reasonable to me, especially considering that part of the point is to grow things I would have had to buy anyway (never mind the upfront cost of the setup, which I don't expect to ever "earn back"). But does this mean the manufacturer "estimated energy cost" is BS? I just re-did my calculation and it came to $15 almost exactly.

Depends on what assumptions the make about the cost of electricity and the number of hours they are on. The other factor is while T8s are nominally 32 watts that doesn't include any losses in the ballast and that also assumes that the ballast drives them exactly at their design current. Under drive them by 10% and they will use less energy but also produce less light.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Stowaway

$23 still seems reasonable to me, especially considering that part of the point is to grow things I would have had to buy anyway (never mind the upfront cost of the setup, which I don't expect to ever "earn back"). But does this mean the manufacturer "estimated energy cost" is BS? I just re-did my calculation and it came to $15 almost exactly.



I should have known better, WortI've learned the most from about how to do this are you and Hotwired.h! I think other than the pot growers, the people

Wow I have chewed on this for a day or two and I simply dont know what to say.

I had no idea anyone even read what I said half of the time.

I really appreciate to comment, thank you.

One thing a person needs to do is think outside the box.

While searching for a time delay relay a while back I discovered something.
for security and building automation.

Circuit boards for security and building automation.
They have dry and wet contacts that will do anything according to how you program the boards.
They also have inputs to run the outputs.

I had to back out of the website because I was starting to lick my chops.

Wprth

[Stowaway]

Originally Posted by Worth1

I had no idea anyone even read what I said half of the time.

I really appreciate to comment, thank you.


Wprth

No problem! I appreciate that there are so many people on this forum who are so helpful!

You never know who you're getting across to. I'm not a very active forum member (in any forum), but there's an archive of useful information here. In about ten days I went from being someone who didn't know what any of the numbers on a box of light bulbs meant, to someone who could tell you which bulbs have blue spikes and which have red. This site may be called Tomatoville, but there's a whole lot more going on here than the name suggests!