Planning a large farm: How long to desucker each indeterminate tom?

[Wi-sunflower]

We have been getting by with about 3-5 part time workers. Most of them have other full-time jobs, second or third shift. They work for me 4 or 5 hours / day. To do a GOOD job of everything tho we would need a few more, or more hours on those we have.

My problem has been that I'm too close to a population center and they can pay more than I can afford to.

I need to run right now so I will explain more tonite or tomorrow when I'm coherant.

[cdevidal]

Thanks so much, I get an idea on the pay problem you described, you don't need to explain more.

Two questions: You have 1500 tom plants? Do your hands do work all over the farm or just on the toms?

[Wi-sunflower]

I had to get going this morning as we had an indoor market and needed to get there. In the summer I leave by 3:45 if not earlier. In the winter I don't have to leave til just before 4:30.

Actually this year we had around 7,000 tomato plants in about 4-5 acres. About 2 acres of hot and sweet peppers (didn't get much at all this year). About 1/2 acre of Eggplant (OK but not great, bug problems). About 2 acres of watermelons (good crop), 6-7 acres of winter squash (so-so yield this year), 1/2 acre of zucchini, an acre or so of cut flower sunflowers, about 2 acres of Brussels Sprouts, and a couple of acres assorted cole crops (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower). There was a bit more of this and that and I'm probably off a bit on the acreages as I'm sure there was at least 25 acres planted.

The workers do whatever is needed that day. Usually weeding a lot early in the season. We do 2 Saturday markets and 2 Wednesday markets as the crops get going. So Tuesdays and Fridays are big picking and packing days. We wash almost everything too. Just a large triple botton sink with cold water and a bit of bleach to kill any germs. Getting the produce clean and cooled down helps with the shelf life. Tho you need to be careful with the tomatoes. Clean yes, but not so much bleach or the skins will crack.

As there is more stuff that needs picking, less time can be spent on weeding or much of anything else. I used to do more myself, but my body can't do as much any more -- arthritus and fibromylgia and just old aches and pains.

We wasted a lot of tomatoes this year, but most of them weren't all that good anyway as the weather ruined much of them. If things go better we often do some u-pick tomatoes when the crop is at it's peak, but didn't even do much of that this year do to the poor quality.

7,000 plants is way more than we usually do and more than I currently have enough help for. But if I do a better job with at least some of the better varieties, I could get more help. All my workers have friends, relatives that would work too if I could pay them. But if I take care of the crops, I could pay them. It's a bit of a "chicken/egg" thing.

It's a hard balancing act figuring it all out at times.

Roughly 20 years ago, we had the markets, I was doing some wholesaling to the commission market, and I sold to about a dozen Chinese Restaurants. It really kept me hopping, at times to the point where I felt I was meeting myself coming and going. We had to have about 6 -8 workers to keep up with everything.

When I found out that I was only getting about 1/3 of what the commision market was turning around and selling my stuff for, I said ENOUGH.

The next year, we cut back a bit on the produce and cut out the wholesaling and most of the restaurants. We made a special effort to do a better job just at the farmers markets. We were able to cut back on labor. At the end of the year, our total income had dropped about 25% but our labor had dropped nearly 50% so we actually came out ahead.

It's a real balancing act to figure out what just YOU can do vs needing labor and how much labor. Sometimes doing less, but doing it very well is better than doing too many thing just so-so.

I do some things very well, but others just so-so. Part of picking what and how much depends on how well you really like doing the job too. And believe me it becomes a JOB really fast if you let it.

One other thing -- someone was asking about yields to determine planting and marketing. Be careful or it becomes a "counting your chickens before they are hatched" thing.

Even the big grain farmers that sell "contracts" for their expected crops only sell about 80% of their expected yield in case of problems. Plenty of mid-west farmers lost much of their crops to the spring/early summer floods, but they had to fulfill the contracts they sold. Many had to buy other farmers grain to deliver the contract.

When I didn't have a market for my ethnic vegies, I couldn't seem to do anything wrong growing things like Napa and Bok Choy and Jalapenos. As soon as I had built up a customer base for those things, everything seemed to go wrong and it was hard to keep the restaurants with an eratic crop.

Just don't over commit until you have a known track record and even then, allow for problems.

[Wi-sunflower]

Actually thinking back on my own 30 years of this "growing for market" some of the best advice I can give would be to start small. With a smaller area and limited production of items, do what YOU can handle yourself.

Also do what YOU are good at and LIKE doing. That way you will maximize all your produce and not waste stuff like we do.

Sure you will probably sell out at times and wish you had more. But that's better than taking stuff home because it isn't up to the quality you wish it was because you couldn't give it the attention it needed.

There is a dificult line to cross when you want to do more and need to hire help. You need to do more than "just a bit more" to be able to pay for that labor.

There is also the problem of WHO is going to be your labor. Do you have friends or family that can help at times ?? That might work for peak times with just a bit more work than you can handle.

But if you need to hire strangers, you need to figure out -- do they NEED this job or is it just some "extra" for them ?? If they need that job as their only income, then you are stuck trying to provide work for them as long as possible. That means more plants and/or different crops to extend the work. Otherwise they will be looking for another job and leave you, probably without warning.

Hiring workers that work for you as a "second job" isn't without it's problems either. Often they have a limited schedule they can work. If you need them to stay longer any certain days, often it's just not possible. If you KNOW you have a day that has more work, see if they have a friend that will work just for that day.

The big problem I've had the last few years is the fact that the guy that has the car and drives the whole crew in, he doesn't like it when the weather gets cold. He just suddenly won't come in any more for that year. Then, boom, I'm without a crew about the time I need them most. I've had to hunt down a couple of the workers and pick them up myself to have any help at all at the end of the season.

I know, lots of things to think about.

[cdevidal]

LOTS to think about but as you advised: I'm going to go in increments. Next year, just 20-30 toms for an experiment. This will show me how much my planning is accurate, then I know how well it will scale. I'll have to review everything you said at some other time, VERY grateful for all of the up-front information from a REAL farmer (TM)!