Semi-Determinates your experience ??

[CamuMahubah]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

I think Celebrity is actually semi-determinate as well ..

to bad for me it is not as cooperative as the others listed in my climate.

I really like the disease resistance built in just in case........

but it never quite comes to the table early enough for me here.....

same here it has been a let down for the last two years..

my neighbor grow's park's whopper and she swears by it..

i don't know she does it but she keeps the whopper plants short..

i must ask but she is alaska right now

i get to water her garden for two weeks when her husband joins her teehee!

[BlackBear]

In Tatiana's site ...... Legend is listed as an semi-determinate as well.

could be ok with the reported Late blight resistance .


What do you all think ??

[NarnianGarden]

Thanks all for the interesting info.
Our season is so short that I don't think any determinate actually comes to the end of their life span.. so that is not an issue here. It would be an interesting experiment to see a determinate plant go through their whole life cycle, produce fruit and then give up their ghost... Here it is only cold weather and frost that puts an end to the season for all, indet. and det. alike. No discrimination there... lol

[berkeleyluddite]

In the past, I have grown semi-determinates plants such as Black Seaman and Principe Borghese. The one thing I thought was interesting was that semi-det tasted better in container vs. raised bed. In fact, the Principe Borghese from container had higher acidity and firmer texture...

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by BlackBear

In Tatiana's site ...... Legend is listed as an semi-determinate as well.

could be ok with the reported Late blight resistance .


What do you all think ??

I don't know about Tatiana. Where she got her information from ? OSU, who has developed Legend calls it a Determinant.
Here is a quote:
"The Legend plant appears to be stronger, with larger stiffer leaves than the other two varieties. Legend is a determinate plant, typically spreading to 36 inches in good growing conditions. "

I grew Legend last year and am growing it again this year. Besides being parthenocarpic, it is fairly disease resistance, including LB too.

Gardeneer

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

Thanks all for the interesting info.
Our season is so short that I don't think any determinate actually comes to the end of their life span.. so that is not an issue here. It would be an interesting experiment to see a determinate plant go through their whole life cycle, produce fruit and then give up their ghost... Here it is only cold weather and frost that puts an end to the season for all, indet. and det. alike. No discrimination there... lol

But if you were to move a few select containers inside a protected area to extend the plant a few months ......the extended ..stretched "window of production" would be an advantage ....and not all plants would have to die right away .

Fresh tomatoes ....after the usual climate terminus. Production "stretched" but not continuous.

Not the commitment of keeping a continual indeterminate going through Winter (expensive ).
just the stretch of production by letting the Semi produce a bit longer (with help).

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by berkeleyluddite

In the past, I have grown semi-determinates plants such as Black Seaman and Principe Borghese. The one thing I thought was interesting was that semi-set tasted better in container vs. raised bed. In fact, the Principe Borghese from container had higher acidity and texture...

Are Black Sea Mann and princepe bourghese Semi-determinate also ?????

a lot of people like these ....if they were Semi as well they have my attention ...

where to confirm this all ????

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

I don't know about Tatiana. Where she got her information from ? OSU, who has developed Legend calls it a Determinant.
Here is a quote:
"The Legend plant appears to be stronger, with larger stiffer leaves than the other two varieties. Legend is a determinate plant, typically spreading to 36 inches in good growing conditions. "

I grew Legend last year and am growing it again this year. Besides being parthenocarpic, it is fairly disease resistance, including LB too.

Gardeneer

I grew legend before and could believe it was a semi-determinate ...

hmmmmmm rechecking the site it says on the Legend variety page " Semi-Determinate growth habit."..... but is not listed on the actual SD category list ......

If someone lists it as a semi-determinate growth habit ...I think there is something to it ....but even if it turns out to be determinate ..it might be a longer spectrum production window still . eeeeeeeks this can get fuzzy distinctions again .

[BlackBear]

Also on Tatiana's tomatobase

under container suitable tomatoes ...

is Belyi Naliv it is listed as Det./Semi-Det.

I think this is a good one to follow up.

Early/compact /productive ....but certainly it is seemingly falling in the Semi-det.
spectrum territory.

[berkeleyluddite]

Both PB and BS are identified as both semi-det and set... I say they are both semi-det because the tomatoes ripen at different stages whereas determinate tomatoes usually ripen on vine at the same time.

http://sustainableseedco.com/heirloo...mato-seed.html

http://www.seedsavers.org/onlinestor...ea-Man-OG.html

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by berkeleyluddite

Both PB and BS are identified as both semi-det and set... I say they are both semi-det because the tomatoes ripen at different stages whereas determinate tomatoes usually ripen on vine at the same time.

http://sustainableseedco.com/heirloo...mato-seed.html

http://www.seedsavers.org/onlinestor...ea-Man-OG.html

awesome investigation /research

thanks

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by CamuMahubah

same here it has been a let down for the last two years..

my neighbor grow's park's whopper and she swears by it..

i don't know she does it but she keeps the whopper plants short..

i must ask but she is alaska right now

i get to water her garden for two weeks when her husband joins her teehee!

celebrity hybrid .....Bah !

I checked out today and everything that had blossoms had set fruit long time ago this year

everything .....BUT Celebrity ! ?

everything including Black prince , black cherry, sasha's Altai, galinas...Big beef, sungold , bloody butcher ,Juliet, sweet Chelsea,,Bush early girl , la roma , etc. etc. etc. but Not celebrity !

I value the High disease resistance rating , and that it is Semi-determinate ....I was hoping that it would be a good one in the heat this year ...it seems to take much longer for me than
the others and I never get the production of ...Big beef .

soo....I am at the point where This is the last year ..if I can not spot the advantage/value in Celebrity Hybrid over Big beef hybrid....as Big beef seems to me to work in containers as well is easily trained to the size even if it is an indeterminate ....I guess in this case the Celebrity could be longer getting going and with the high disease resistance ...could still be a good plant for extended harvest and finishing off in a protected fall location.

I am getting impatient ....what about the cool years ? ...this celebrity would never do at this rate . It sure is famous and has that impressive disease resistance ....but it seems to be behind all the rest already ???? It still is a nice plant ...so I will hold off for a bit more.

[AlittleSalt]

Ask in the, "Wanted" section for some older Celebrity seeds. Something has changed recently about Celebrity. Hybrids are not the answer. It is getting kind of retro in a bad kind of way.

[NarnianGarden]

Bear, my season already extens until October, due to the sheltered location. After that, it is so dark that there is no way to grow a pot plant on a windowsill.. the leaves might survive, but without light, no hope for fruits.
I once succeeded in having a peppermint plant survive over winter.. it was a sorry sight in December! The first January sunrays perked it up.

[BlackBear]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Ask in the, "Wanted" section for some older Celebrity seeds. Something has changed recently about Celebrity. Hybrids are not the answer. It is getting kind of retro in a bad kind of way.

I think there must have been a change in celebrity as how in the heck could it get the "all American award " thing and have hybrid vigour and all that disease resistance ...and come out at the end of the pack ...slower ...less productive ...etc.

I agree hybrids are not the answer .....but I have some hybrids to "be a safety belt"

in case if environmental calamity befalls the year (climate or pathogen etc.)

My usual standard are a few Big beef/Sungold /Juliet ...


if I do not see some advantage ....with the famous disease factor and the fruit production being later ....I am done with celebrity...I have so many others heirloom and hybrids that
are doing better in cool or heat . I kind of hope it does better ...but this can be a hybrid problem ....when is a celebrity ...not a celebrity ? How do you tell you have celebrity "old" (original ) from "celebrity new " ?