The advantages and disadvantages of starting seeds early - Page 2

NewWestGardener · March 12, 2015

oh... thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

For your area it would be black plastic sheets you can get at the store.

Oliver · May 3, 2021

People here always say "you plant after Mother's Day." Working back from this date puts me with a seed starting date that coincides with Farmer's Almanac, which is I believe March 2-22. Late April and early May are very unpredictable here. In the last few years we've had 2 blizzards at the end of April. One year it frosted on May 19. Of the two tomato varieties I wanted this year (small garden) I only had seeds for one in late February. I started them and they took off like crazy. Early April was warm and I thought "I'll show them." Then late April came and a bunch of low 20's and 30's at night for two weeks. I had a bunch of root bound sickly monsters. The other seed I finally got on March 25 and planted when I got home. They grew fast also but I was able to harden them off at early and planted 5 of them yesterday with plastic mulch. The positive was that I got to start doing garden things earlier but wasted some money and energy. On a side note, it worked out for me because I ended up finding a different "strain" of the first tomato that I wanted to try more than the original. I started them last week and have seedlings already. Might get tomatoes a little late from that one but will have what I really want.

Milan HP · May 3, 2021

A voice from another continent and perhaps another climate (zone 6a/5b).
It's taken me some years to realize what the optimal approach is. And some set-backs as well.
1) You have to know what you are after. Early harvest or maximum yield. Profit or pleasure. Or a long lasting season.

2) You have to know the conditions very well and adjust to them. Of course, taking the current weather into account. Every year is different, at least here.

And that's it. There's no "prescription" that works for anyone. I have learnt to sow tomatoes for my garden (1800 ft a.m.s.l.) app 3 weeks before I sow seeds for my friends at altitudes of app 600 ft (Feb 15 resp Mar 8). I plant out seedlings with a lot of flowers and some fruits up there. And I get first ripe tomatoes at the same time as my friends, sometimes even earlier, even though I plant them out later than them. I tried an early plant-out last year (Apr 7). The plants got almost frozen when a wave of chilly weather came. They survived okay, but they stalled for over a month. And they did worse than those I planted out on May 17 all the season.

Milan HP

brownrexx · May 4, 2021

I have discovered that planting my tomatoes out earlier and exposing them to cold does not bring me earlier tomatoes. Planting stocky, healthy plants that have been put outside during the warm days and brought indoors for the cold nights has worked a lot better for me.

Milan HP · May 4, 2021

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrexx

I have discovered that planting my tomatoes out earlier and exposing them to cold does not bring me earlier tomatoes. Planting stocky, healthy plants that have been put outside during the warm days and brought indoors for the cold nights has worked a lot better for me.

Same here. I measured the temperature of the soil at app 8" deep. 45.3°F (7.4°C) is not enough for "comfortable growth", I think. So I put planting out off some more. My idea is over 10°C (50°F). Is that too optimistic/pessimistic?

Milan HP

Oliver · May 6, 2021

Just from what I've read in your posts I think you have the right approach. I've seen some places a soil temp of 60 for planting, but it seems to me you have enough experience to know what will work.

CrazyAboutOrchids · May 6, 2021

I grow my seedlings in a cold basement under lights with a fan blowing lightly. I do plant out early, but my plants have 'grown up' in chillier temps inside so early outdoor stuff doesn't fizz them much or slow them down. I use tunnels for overnights that are below 50F.

Milan HP · May 6, 2021

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver

Just from what I've read in your posts I think you have the right approach. I've seen some places a soil temp of 60 for planting, but it seems to me you have enough experience to know what will work.

Hello Oliver,
I am not so sure about that. Actually, I hadn't payed much attention to the soil temperature before and my toms did okay. However, this extremely cold spring and perhaps last year's experience have made me more interested in details.

I like solving problems, so I have devised a plan to raise the temps a bit. Black non-woven fabric on top of the soil prior to planting-out (but if there's little or no sunshine, it won't help much). And a kilo or two(?) of manure mixed with biomass (cut grass) under each plant. Watered with 100°F water to speed up the fermentation process. Can't think of anything else.

What do you think? Could it work? Thank you.
Milan HP

D.J. Wolf · May 6, 2021

Milan

I've used black plastic to start seeds (squash and whatnot) in the garden and it helped a lot. Too much manure could cause problems if it's not aged enough and cause burning of the plant. But it would create heat as it ferments, question is would it be too much heat? But good idea to try I would say

Milan HP · May 7, 2021

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.J. Wolf

Milan

I've used black plastic to start seeds (squash and whatnot) in the garden and it helped a lot. Too much manure could cause problems if it's not aged enough and cause burning of the plant. But it would create heat as it ferments, question is would it be too much heat? But good idea to try I would say

Hello D.J.,
the manure is quite "mature" and my plan is to mix it with biomass about 1 : 2 or even 3. I need the heat and fermentation will only involve the fresh cut grass - no way it could be too much heat. The manure is mostly just a nitrogen fertilizer (and humus provider). And of course, I'll make sure the roots don't even touch what's under them by putting a thin layer of topsoil between them. Very little chance of burning them.
I covered the patches today. I left two small "control areas" to compare to. I'll publicize the results here.
Milan HP

slugworth · May 8, 2021

2 years ago I started seeds early and by planting time I had a massive amount of plants.
I donated the excess plants to a community garden that donated the produce to local soup kitchens.
Last year because of the covid I got off to a late start and had to buy most of my plants.
This year I only started a few varieties from seed.I won't have enough/big enough to donate.

Oliver · May 10, 2021

I think it could work. I haven't heard of the 100 degree water trick. Could help to raise temp under the fabric.

Milan HP · May 10, 2021

Hello Oliver,
the trick was performed just today. I left out the hot water part as the day was really sunny and hot. I just made and filled the holes in the morning and then I left them open for the sun to heat the inside. Planting out only started at 6 pm. I didn't bother to measure the temp, but it felt warm to touch - probably over 80°F. Tomorrow's gonna be another hot day, so I plan to put the non-woven fabric back in the evening to prevent heat loss. Considering how much energy the soil absorbed today and hopefully also tomorrow, I am quite confident it will work. I'll certainly report the results here.

Milan HP

simmran1 · May 10, 2021

[I had a bunch of root bound sickly monsters.] To expand on Oliver’s post, we’re
experiencing night time temps in the high thirties so I'm waiting, and I also have (2) root bound sickly monsters. What I do is remove the plant from the 16 oz. solo cup and prune the bottom roots, and then pot up to something (plastic pot) a bit taller, and they recover in a few hours. That always works for me and that gives me another 7 days, which is for this year all that is necessary.

Milan HP · May 11, 2021

Hello Simmran,
I have just planted out 17 seedlings in very beautiful weather. There's a problem though: the weather forecast says there will be a long spell of cold weather again. Temps fluctuating between 40 and 55°F. The soil temperature is going down to hell again. That means my other over 30 seedlings will have to wait maybe 10 more days. However, I am not worried about root-bind as I grow them in 1-liter milk Tetrapack cartons (0.264 gallon) that are about 9" tall. That is for the first stage after pricking out I cut the cartons in halves and then when the seedlings are over 10" tall they go into full cartons. I have never had any problems with root bound plants.

Milan HP

May 3, 2021	#17
Oliver Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Monroe, South Dakota Posts: 50	People here always say "you plant after Mother's Day." Working back from this date puts me with a seed starting date that coincides with Farmer's Almanac, which is I believe March 2-22. Late April and early May are very unpredictable here. In the last few years we've had 2 blizzards at the end of April. One year it frosted on May 19. Of the two tomato varieties I wanted this year (small garden) I only had seeds for one in late February. I started them and they took off like crazy. Early April was warm and I thought "I'll show them." Then late April came and a bunch of low 20's and 30's at night for two weeks. I had a bunch of root bound sickly monsters. The other seed I finally got on March 25 and planted when I got home. They grew fast also but I was able to harden them off at early and planted 5 of them yesterday with plastic mulch. The positive was that I got to start doing garden things earlier but wasted some money and energy. On a side note, it worked out for me because I ended up finding a different "strain" of the first tomato that I wanted to try more than the original. I started them last week and have seedlings already. Might get tomatoes a little late from that one but will have what I really want. Last edited by Oliver; May 3, 2021 at 03:50 PM.

May 6, 2021	#24
D.J. Wolf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Illinois Posts: 199	Milan I've used black plastic to start seeds (squash and whatnot) in the garden and it helped a lot. Too much manure could cause problems if it's not aged enough and cause burning of the plant. But it would create heat as it ferments, question is would it be too much heat? But good idea to try I would say __________________ Kevin (aka the DJ)

May 10, 2021	#29
simmran1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Iowa Zone 5 Posts: 305	[I had a bunch of root bound sickly monsters.] To expand on Oliver’s post, we’re experiencing night time temps in the high thirties so I'm waiting, and I also have (2) root bound sickly monsters. What I do is remove the plant from the 16 oz. solo cup and prune the bottom roots, and then pot up to something (plastic pot) a bit taller, and they recover in a few hours. That always works for me and that gives me another 7 days, which is for this year all that is necessary. __________________ Tomatovillain

May 3, 2021	#18
Milan HP Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Ústí nad Labem in the north of the Czech Republic Posts: 332	A voice from another continent and perhaps another climate (zone 6a/5b). It's taken me some years to realize what the optimal approach is. And some set-backs as well. 1) You have to know what you are after. Early harvest or maximum yield. Profit or pleasure. Or a long lasting season. 2) You have to know the conditions very well and adjust to them. Of course, taking the current weather into account. Every year is different, at least here. And that's it. There's no "prescription" that works for anyone. I have learnt to sow tomatoes for my garden (1800 ft a.m.s.l.) app 3 weeks before I sow seeds for my friends at altitudes of app 600 ft (Feb 15 resp Mar 8). I plant out seedlings with a lot of flowers and some fruits up there. And I get first ripe tomatoes at the same time as my friends, sometimes even earlier, even though I plant them out later than them. I tried an early plant-out last year (Apr 7). The plants got almost frozen when a wave of chilly weather came. They survived okay, but they stalled for over a month. And they did worse than those I planted out on May 17 all the season. Milan HP

May 4, 2021	#19
brownrexx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 1,420	I have discovered that planting my tomatoes out earlier and exposing them to cold does not bring me earlier tomatoes. Planting stocky, healthy plants that have been put outside during the warm days and brought indoors for the cold nights has worked a lot better for me.

May 6, 2021	#22
CrazyAboutOrchids Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Zone 6 - CT Posts: 155	I grow my seedlings in a cold basement under lights with a fan blowing lightly. I do plant out early, but my plants have 'grown up' in chillier temps inside so early outdoor stuff doesn't fizz them much or slow them down. I use tunnels for overnights that are below 50F.

May 8, 2021	#26
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	2 years ago I started seeds early and by planting time I had a massive amount of plants. I donated the excess plants to a community garden that donated the produce to local soup kitchens. Last year because of the covid I got off to a late start and had to buy most of my plants. This year I only started a few varieties from seed.I won't have enough/big enough to donate.

May 11, 2021	#30
Milan HP Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Ústí nad Labem in the north of the Czech Republic Posts: 332	Hello Simmran, I have just planted out 17 seedlings in very beautiful weather. There's a problem though: the weather forecast says there will be a long spell of cold weather again. Temps fluctuating between 40 and 55°F. The soil temperature is going down to hell again. That means my other over 30 seedlings will have to wait maybe 10 more days. However, I am not worried about root-bind as I grow them in 1-liter milk Tetrapack cartons (0.264 gallon) that are about 9" tall. That is for the first stage after pricking out I cut the cartons in halves and then when the seedlings are over 10" tall they go into full cartons. I have never had any problems with root bound plants. Milan HP