What are YOU feeding your Tomato Plants

[kelleyville]

Originally Posted by amideutch

Tom's famous seaweed diet. All you have to do is look at pictures of his plants and maters and you know it works!! And he gets it for free.

Kelleyville, if it isn't broke don't fix it. You may not need to use any more amendments if your plants are growing that well. What depth is your water table? Maybe you could have a well dug. Ami

Have no idea about water table, but when this drought first started the well diggers got a lot of calls! Most are booked up until September! We do have standing water on property that I call a swamp I could most likely pump water out of but at present have not taken the time to figure out what kind of pump would suck the water and not be clogged with gunk all the time and that would pump it all the way to the house! We got a little more rain last night about 6 or 8 (silly me didn't really count) 5 gallon buckets. Using a water meter now to make sure I don't water until just before wilt point.

A well may be in our future though! Also looking into gray water reuse if only for shrubs and flowers that are not edible.

Thanks for your reply!
Kelley

[dice]

"... what kind of pump would suck the water and not be
clogged with gunk all the time and that would pump it
all the way to the house!"

Two ways: a cheap non-submersible centrifugal pump with a filter, or a sewage pump.

Non-submersible example:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...6970_7738_7738

(One can get more expensive brand-name pumps
of the same style, perhaps with warrantees,
gas- or diesel-powered if necessary, etc.)

In your case, you would need a filter on the intake side,
maybe something from a landscape supplies dealer for
use with goldfish ponds, fountains, and the like, or perhaps
a well-driller could recommend something more industrial
strength. (If you've ever seen a filter for the bottom
of well pipe, they are not made out of screen. They
are metal with rows of fine slits cut in the sides.)

A sewage pump is just a submersible sump pump that
can handle solids of maximum diameter varying with
the pump model.

Cost varies with the size of the pump, up to a few
grand for "grinder" models, service lifetime around
5-10 years. Carefully placed, you might not need
a filter with one of these.

Flotec makes a cheap one:

http://www.espotdeals.com/Shop/Contr...FSejhgodRiMQ9g

[kelleyville]

Wow thanks! That centrifugal one might be more affordable at present at least a viable alternative for the immediate future! Printing this infor to discuss with hubby!

I am at present wondering what I need to do with my laundry water to make it suitable for the vege garden. It is fine as is for the trees and shrubs and non edible perrenials, but I seem to recall my grandmother throwing dishwater in her garden and I would think that actually had more crud that was bad like oils than my laundry water.... We are buying fittings to connect the out water to a hose that I will run through the back of the house when doing laundry-guess there are worse things than a hose run through your house ...Thinking that I could pump it into 55 gallon barrels, then filter it through some kind of screen, through sand, and through charcoal, but would that be enough? Looked at the military spec tablets that are iodine based and wondering if that would hurt any particular vege, maters especially or if it is so minute it would not matter? I do want to be able to eat them not just look at them

Thanks again for those links!
Kelley

[dcarch]

Centrifigal pumps cannot normally suck water out. They are not self-priming. They only work when they are submerged or primed.

dcarch

[kelleyville]

While I hate to ask, how do you prime a centrifigal pump? Checked out that one pump and they had listed accessories, water filter was one of them...so now just how do you prime? Is this something disgusting like sucking on a hose? The water in my swamp is fed by some spring somewhere, and its low now with no rain but still has water but it is not something I would want to drink

[amideutch]

Kelley, heres a couple links that may help. You need to check the local codes in your area concerning graywater use. Most sites I looked at don't recocomend it for watering edible crops. Check the sites out and see. Ami
http://greywater.net/
http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/hortcult...d/graywate.htm

[kelleyville]

Thanks Ami.
It seems that it might be ok for veges that you do not intend to eat raw even with chemical treatment, but isn't that what my water company does with my sewage? treat it and give it back to me? This will be an ongoing project for me but I intend to follow through on the re-use of laundry water for non edible plants at least. Too bad my water company does not meter my sewage-they base my sewer charge on the amount of water I use! Go figure! All my conservation efforts don't save me a dime

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by kelleyville

While I hate to ask, how do you prime a centrifigal pump? Checked out that one pump and they had listed accessories, water filter was one of them...so now just how do you prime? Is this something disgusting like sucking on a hose? The water in my swamp is fed by some spring somewhere, and its low now with no rain but still has water but it is not something I would want to drink

Check out eBay re. "self-priming pump"

also make sure you read how far above water level each pump can "self-prime". In any case no pump can suck water more than atmospheric pressure against weight of water. ( I forgot, 14'?).

Depending on what kind of water and where they are going/coming you may need check valves to prevent backflow.

If you expect lots of sediment, it will be a good idea to pass thru a retaintion tank first. Otherwise filters wouldn't last a few minutes.

dcarch

[dice]

I saw one of those inexpensive centrifugal
pumps in action. I don't remember the details
of priming it, but the intake was only a foot
and a half long, and the pump was only a few
inches above initial water level, so maybe that
was not an issue. (How to keep it no more than
a couple of inches above water level in a pond
or swamp? Float it. Get a stack of bricks or similar
that weighs the same as the pump to test a
homemade floating support. If it does not float,
add more styrofoam under it. Plumbing departments
sell perforated, galvanized strapping that can be used
to strap styrofoam blocks to the bottom of a platform,
for example.)

Running it dry is not recommended, by the
way. The motor will overheat, and it will never
work again. They usually come with instructions
for wiring up to 110v AC.

A quality filter will probably cost more than that
cheap pump. One could use well screen and pile
gravel around it. It can be found down to 4" or
even 2" diameter (although 2" is not popular due
to low surface area for slots for water to flow through).

A study on care and maintenance of irrigation wells
from Purdue:

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ageng/irrigate/ae97w.htm

Edit: study at above URL is from North Dakota
State University (not Purdue).

[dice]

(Re: priming a centrifugal pump)

Those ultra-cheap, non-submersible centrifugal
pumps do need to be primed to work. The person
that owned the one I saw in action said he just
bent the flexible inlet hose up, filled it with water,
pushed it back down into the water that he intended
to pump, and turned it on.

I don't know how that would work with a filter
on the end of the inlet (especially well screen
buried in gravel). You would probably need
something like a hose quick-connect in between
the inlet side of the pump and the filter, then
connect the filter to the inlet hose after the pump
is running.

That is not nearly as convenient as a self-priming
pump or submersible pump, but I don't know where
you can get one of those for $30-40. If you pile rocks
too big to pass through the inlet around a submersible
sewage pump, you can probably get away without using
a filter at all.

I understand not wanting to make a big investment
in something that you only need during a drought
in summer.

Something that I've never seen anywhere: a wick
in a pipe, some material that absorbs water stretched
through a pipe that you can run all the way from the
swamp to your gardens. Once it gets completely wet,
it will conduct water via capillary action, like a towel
with one end in a sink full of water dripping it out onto
the floor. (The pipe is to keep it from evaporating
before it gets to the garden end.)

I don't know what the flow rate would be, though.
It might all evaporate as it comes out the end of
the wick. Maybe stick the end down into mulch?

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong, and the
thing to do is move the garden to the swamp,
like the Aztecs did (floating islands of reeds and
compost with veggies on top).

[kelleyville]

To all above!

Wow! That is a lot of information and all interesting!

I would for now be pumping from the creek,so not too far, the swamp on the other hand has to travel a long way. That first centrifugal pump posted had a user comment-the pump is rated for 20 feet but he uses it all day every day at 40 feet so might work for me.

the gravel would solve a bit of a problem of the sludge in the creek, guessing a sump pump would work in a shallow gravel pit as well. I will be pumping either into buckets or into a 55 gallon barrel.

I think Georgia has had so much drought in my lifetime that it would be wise to have a backup plan and even to continue to take advantage of the naturally flowing water when it is available. The city cant charge me for it, and they cant charge me for sewage on it

I like the Aztec idea, you know how to do this? or what they actually grew? Somehow I just don't see my tomatoes floating around the swamp

We had a surprise rain shower early in the day yesterday, was able to collect about 25 gallons of water I guess, maybe a bit more or less. The rain that was all over Georgia last nighe kept going all around me but never on me I stayed up until about 1 AM hoping to need to move buckets of water. Oh well, I have another chance today I hope!

You are all full of such great ideas and information!

Kelley

[dcarch]

1. Any centrifigul pump will work if the impeller is below water level. You don't really need self-priming.

2. Some submergeable pumps are rated to be underwater and operated by a float switch otherwise motor may overheat. All the others do not need water to operate.

3. Filter is not generally needed, screen is a good idea.

4. Anytime electrical appliances are near water, converting the outlet to GFP outlet is recommended ( and required by Code). It's cheap and safe.

5. This may be a good case for a solar operated water pump. When you have drought, you have sun. Very low capacity, but it keeps on running.
Check out eBay "solar fountain".

dcarch

[dice]

"the pump is rated for 20 feet but he uses it all
day every day at 40 feet so might work for me."

That is probably "20 feet of lift", incidentally,
meaning that you can run a hose to an elevation
20 feet above where the pump is and it will continue
to pump (not 20 feet horizontally from the pump
outlet).

The Aztec chinampas did not actually float. Instead,
they were built up by piling layers of mud and organic
debris on the lake bottoms until the ground level was
raised "about a meter" above the surface of the water.
They only looked like they were floating on the water.

There are a few still preserved in Xochimilco.

Articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinampas
http://www.geocities.com/wasicugohome/chinampa.html

[TJS]

Guys,
You are over thinking the pump. A centrifigal pump just needs a well point and a check valve. A wellpoint is a metal or plastic pipe with small hoizontal slits, and sometimes a screen that is made to catch crud and still not too much crud. The check valve keeps water from going down, therefore pump is always primed. The pump is primed untill the check valve fails or the wellpoint clogs, which they don't often. You do have to prime it the first time, but its not difficult.
For $350.00 or less you may have a free water source (less electricty and that is very little cost). I a long wellpoint 10-20 feet deep where I live, Coastal, South Carolina, water is still available even when we are in drought. I have more info if anyone gives a S***. Sorry for the fake profanity but I just cracked myself up (it don't take much)
Tim

[kelleyville]

TJS
I am very interested! My best friend over talks these things as he likes to sound important...engineers I guess many are that way not sure but he thinks he is entitled....I think we may do the centrigugal pump! but more info from your topic would be great!