Seeds that take forever? - Page 2

Father'sDaughter · June 2, 2020

They say fermentation removes the gel sac that contains germination inhibitors. That may be part of why your seeds are taking longer than normal to germinate. Fresh seeds will usually pop within a week when fermented.

zipcode · June 3, 2020

More than 14 days for tomatoes is rough, especially with a mat. Should take about 3-4 days for fresh seed. For eggplant, something like 7-12 is normal, for peppers varies a lot, rocotos took more than 3 weeks (and with very poor percentage), but a jalapeno is under a week.
I find alternating the heat with turning it off seems to help, but I didn't do a controlled experiment.

ddsack · June 3, 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

I find alternating the heat with turning it off seems to help, but I didn't do a controlled experiment.

No controlled experiment here either, but I've been doing that for a few years now. My heat mat runs too hot, and though I can use blocks of wood to raise up the trays higher, I found that I have better germination when I turn off the heater at night. That seems to mimic the day/night heating cycle in nature. And I have fewer of those overly long thin sprouts that hatch and grow fast in the dark looking for light.

slugworth · June 3, 2020

Now that they had more time,I have a S-load of the heatmaster seedlings.

slugworth · June 3, 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

They say fermentation removes the gel sac that contains germination inhibitors. That may be part of why your seeds are taking longer than normal to germinate. Fresh seeds will usually pop within a week when fermented.

my non fermented paper plate seeds popped in 4-5 days
A sliced heirloom tomato put right into the ground as slices took 1 week.
But that was at outdoor temps day and night.

slugworth · June 6, 2020

The other side of the coin;I had gladiator seeds store bought I put in the ground may 1st
They are big enough to plant.
The same with the phoenix from saved seeds.
It's all in the genes.

slugworth · June 12, 2020

A lot depends on how you start the seeds.
In potting soil,no need to ferment.
The paper towel method needs fermenting or rubbing the gel off.
Paper plate no soil non fermented the gel was still on after 2 weeks.
One seed did pop and I let the rest dry.I have plenty of that variety.

DonDuck · June 12, 2020

Like slugworth, my Heatmaster tomatoes were slower to germinate than other varieties, but I usually get 100% germination with Heatmaster and they quickly catch up in growth. I only use my heat mats on pepper seed. I germinate in single seed cells and typically don't up pot. My seeding is usually accomplished in one day. From planting, I normally only need to keep them watered and occasionally lower my growing deck below the lights as the plants grow. I start hardening them outside a couple of weeks before plant out. My philosophy for myself has always been "keep it simple, stupid".

slugworth · June 13, 2020

Looking back at the various seed packets,they cover their hiney by saying germinates in 7-21 days.Like a generic answer.
Starting seeds later I was able to take advantage of sunlight and grow lights.
Sunlight during normal hours then grow lights for overtime and on cloudy days.

slugworth · June 13, 2020

Kumato saved seeds took forever also when I made the attempt years ago.
On a side note,I wonder how many people have run into sterile saved seeds
that I see warnings about on various sites, and are actually true.
4th of july hybrid was supposed to be a sterile when saved seed,but they lied.

DonDuck · June 15, 2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by slugworth

Kumato saved seeds took forever also when I made the attempt years ago.
On a side note,I wonder how many people have run into sterile saved seeds
that I see warnings about on various sites, and are actually true.
4th of july hybrid was supposed to be a sterile when saved seed,but they lied.

I don't remember anyone saying saved hybrid seeds are sterile. What I do remember people saying is saved hybrid seeds will probably not grow true to the plant or fruit it was saved from. A hybrid plant may produce a great tasting tomato, but it's offspring may taste like card board.

I've also been told that many old hybrid varieties are in fact no longer hybrid. The companies who sell them grew the variety through it's f7 phase, but want the customers to continue believing they are hybrid and will not save seed from them. For the seed producers, it is much less expensive to produce genetically stable seed than constantly producing hybrid seed. I have no idea how true that is.

Father'sDaughter · June 15, 2020

There have been reports of people saving seeds from older varieties of hybrids that have grown true in subsequent years, but I think you're right that not too many people will try. These would be stabilized hybrids (and now open pollinated), but the seed companies certainly aren't going to change their labeling...

Then there are hybrids many people have tried to de-hybridize over several years with no luck in getting anything that resembles the original enough. Sungold seems to be the one with the most attempts among T'ville members.

slugworth · June 15, 2020

Where seldom is heard a discouraging word.
The 4th of july hybrids took about 5 or 6 generations to revert back to the origins.

DonDuck · June 23, 2020

I grew 4th of July for many years because it is an early producer. I stopped growing them when I realized decent tasting tomatoes could be grown in the same places as the early tomatoes. It didn't harm me to wait a week or two for the good tasting tomatoes. 4th of July always seemed to me to be tasteless, but could be cooked down to a decent tomato sauce and they could be frozen to add to various recipes.

Many people tried to dehybridize Better Boy over the years without success. Carolyn often advised them they were wasting their time because one of the genetic contributors was a variety named Teddy or Teddy Boy. The producer of the Better Boy hybrid had somehow acquired all seed and patents of Teddy and would not name the other contributors. Without knowledge of what you were attempting to standardize to, it would seem to be a waste of time.

slugworth · June 24, 2020

The 4th of july origin was a PL determinate type and some cherry RL indeterminate.
I grew what I call july 5th this year,the determinate PL plants.
They have blossoms and will produce in july.
When I donated to the soup kitchen garden last year I purposely donated tomatoes
that get ripe in july here,so they would have a fast supply for the kitchens.
4th of july hybrid and bloody butcher, 2 types you can't buy locally here.
I had my 1st 4th of july hybrid june 17th and it was delicious.A bought plant that already
had a green tomato.

June 2, 2020	#16
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,919	They say fermentation removes the gel sac that contains germination inhibitors. That may be part of why your seeds are taking longer than normal to germinate. Fresh seeds will usually pop within a week when fermented. Last edited by Father'sDaughter; June 3, 2020 at 12:08 PM.

June 3, 2020	#17
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	More than 14 days for tomatoes is rough, especially with a mat. Should take about 3-4 days for fresh seed. For eggplant, something like 7-12 is normal, for peppers varies a lot, rocotos took more than 3 weeks (and with very poor percentage), but a jalapeno is under a week. I find alternating the heat with turning it off seems to help, but I didn't do a controlled experiment.

June 3, 2020	#19
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	Now that they had more time,I have a S-load of the heatmaster seedlings.

June 6, 2020	#21
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	The other side of the coin;I had gladiator seeds store bought I put in the ground may 1st They are big enough to plant. The same with the phoenix from saved seeds. It's all in the genes.

June 12, 2020	#22
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	A lot depends on how you start the seeds. In potting soil,no need to ferment. The paper towel method needs fermenting or rubbing the gel off. Paper plate no soil non fermented the gel was still on after 2 weeks. One seed did pop and I let the rest dry.I have plenty of that variety.

June 12, 2020	#23
DonDuck Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Corinth, texas Posts: 1,784	Like slugworth, my Heatmaster tomatoes were slower to germinate than other varieties, but I usually get 100% germination with Heatmaster and they quickly catch up in growth. I only use my heat mats on pepper seed. I germinate in single seed cells and typically don't up pot. My seeding is usually accomplished in one day. From planting, I normally only need to keep them watered and occasionally lower my growing deck below the lights as the plants grow. I start hardening them outside a couple of weeks before plant out. My philosophy for myself has always been "keep it simple, stupid".

June 13, 2020	#24
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	Looking back at the various seed packets,they cover their hiney by saying germinates in 7-21 days.Like a generic answer. Starting seeds later I was able to take advantage of sunlight and grow lights. Sunlight during normal hours then grow lights for overtime and on cloudy days.

June 15, 2020	#27
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,919	There have been reports of people saving seeds from older varieties of hybrids that have grown true in subsequent years, but I think you're right that not too many people will try. These would be stabilized hybrids (and now open pollinated), but the seed companies certainly aren't going to change their labeling... Then there are hybrids many people have tried to de-hybridize over several years with no luck in getting anything that resembles the original enough. Sungold seems to be the one with the most attempts among T'ville members.

June 23, 2020	#29
DonDuck Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Corinth, texas Posts: 1,784	I grew 4th of July for many years because it is an early producer. I stopped growing them when I realized decent tasting tomatoes could be grown in the same places as the early tomatoes. It didn't harm me to wait a week or two for the good tasting tomatoes. 4th of July always seemed to me to be tasteless, but could be cooked down to a decent tomato sauce and they could be frozen to add to various recipes. Many people tried to dehybridize Better Boy over the years without success. Carolyn often advised them they were wasting their time because one of the genetic contributors was a variety named Teddy or Teddy Boy. The producer of the Better Boy hybrid had somehow acquired all seed and patents of Teddy and would not name the other contributors. Without knowledge of what you were attempting to standardize to, it would seem to be a waste of time.

June 24, 2020	#30
slugworth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: connecticut,usa Posts: 1,152	The 4th of july origin was a PL determinate type and some cherry RL indeterminate. I grew what I call july 5th this year,the determinate PL plants. They have blossoms and will produce in july. When I donated to the soup kitchen garden last year I purposely donated tomatoes that get ripe in july here,so they would have a fast supply for the kitchens. 4th of july hybrid and bloody butcher, 2 types you can't buy locally here. I had my 1st 4th of july hybrid june 17th and it was delicious.A bought plant that already had a green tomato.