Seedlings with curling leaves - Page 2

SueCT · May 13, 2018

Wow, thank you everyone for all your posts and ideas. The potting mix was a giant bag I had not used up last year, and was stored in my garage so it stayed dry. Not sure if I used that particular bag for seedlings last year or potted plants, but I didn't see any evidence of contamination last year. It would have had to have been contaminated in my garage somehow and that seeems unlikely.

I looked and looked and cannot find any aphids. The white dots on the pic might have been pieces of pearlite that are in the mix. Not positive, but I just can't be sure which leaf that was and can't find any actual bugs.

The plants did shoot up pretty fast once transplanted so maybe they need to "slow thier roll" a bit, lol. If Carolyn is correct maybe the root growth didn't keep up with the top growth. Those leaves do feel a bit dry on the edges, so maybe not enough roots yet to feed and water all that growth. This would be the best possible reason. I WANT this to be the reason, lol. The combination of more light from the new lights and potting soil with fertilizer in it may have spurred more growth than was good. We also had a couple of days that were quite warm in the mid to upper 80s and there is no ac in that room and it got quite warm. That may have spurred some growth too. Since they do feel a little dry, I moved the lights up a few inches. It might decrease the heat over them a bit, and decrease the light they get somewhat to maybe slow them down a little. I am going to keep using the ceiling fan, which is gentle. Working on keeping them moist but not soggy. I started these a couple of weeks later than I usually do and I was concerned about how small they still were, and I transplanted them into the Miracle Grow when they were a bit smaller with less extensive root systems than in the past. So maybe it was a combination of all those things happening at one time. This pysiologic leaf roll can be scary stuff, lol. It looks so dramatic.

Unless I start to see aphids or some other bug, or evidence of leaf disease, there doesn't appear to be much more I can do. I will keep an eye on them for that. I don't have other potting mix to try unless I buy new. The one large bag I have left is unopened but it is the same brand bought at the same time, so if it was contamintion at the source, it would likely be manufactured and packaged at the same time and it would likely be contaminated too. But these bags I think I bought 2 years ago. They were a good deal on Amazon with free shipping and the UPS gal and her partner carried them all up the drive and stacked them in my garage for me. How much better can you get with heavy bags of potting mix? For those like me who like to shop online and appreciate having everything delivered right to me, those UPS drivers are the unsung heros of our time.

zipcode · May 13, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I agree with the first part of your answer but not the second part, well maybe a bit re N, but see below..

I don't find what you show as being rare,rather I'd call it unusual growth and it's called unbalanced growth.

Which means that the roots and or foliage or both are growing faster than they should. IMO it has nothing to do with fertilizers, etc.

I've seen it many times. As the plants grow they will get with it and the foliage will return to normal foliage.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=18627

See post 5 above and the link I put up there as confirmation, but I didn't check that 2nd link to be sure it is still active,so fingers crossed..

Carolyn

According to Grodan that is due to calcium insufficiency in the growing tips due sometimes to overgrowth (which can be due to root inefficiency and high humidity which slows calcium uptake).

dustdevil · May 14, 2018

I had a bag of potting soil I bought last year that was super moldy looking inside when I opened it up after sitting a year

It was stored inside and the moisture content must have been too high when packaged. Only time that ever happened to me. I don't know if it was a leaf mold or something nasty. Also, you never know if a bag is carrying any disease.

In regards to lighting, duration per day is a factor also. Plants don't like too much light if the soil is dry. They will droop and later some of the leaves will shrivel/dry.

Aphids usually hang around if there's a good meal to be had.

Too much fertilizer will definitely cause the symptoms you had.

**carolyn137** · May 14, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

According to Grodan that is due to calcium insufficiency in the growing tips due sometimes to overgrowth (which can be due to root inefficiency and high humidity which slows calcium uptake).

That's called tip burn and there are several reasons why it occurs.

Within some of the following links if it were me the first one I'd check out is that Cornell one called Vegetable ? Online and there are also pictures within several of the other links as well.

So basically what you are saying above is unbalanced growth, but bringing in CA++ and some other factors as well, at least as I read what you wrote.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

https://www.google.com/search?q=tip+...&bih=815&dpr=1

Carolyn

SueCT · May 14, 2018

I have one plant now with tell tale sun burn on uncurled leaves. The leaft has turned white on top and the only time I have seen that before is when I pushed the harding off too fast or lost track of time and left seedlings in the sun too long.

zipcode · May 15, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

That's called tip burn and there are several reasons why it occurs.
Carolyn

No, I was taking about curling of tops, usually called nitrogen excess, etc (which is basically also true). I was just expanding on what you said, why according to latest info does it happen specifically, and that is lack of calcium in growth tips, which does make sense since in these periods of 'overgrowth' is when BER usually occurs.

SueCT · May 22, 2018

OK, I am close to throwing in the towel on the entiire lot this year. Have not watered most in at least 4 days, just a few that had actually started to wilt. No uncurling. Put them out on the north side of the house today, temps in the high 70's and they were in the shade from about 2 pm on. No change. It is supposed to rain tomorrow, so I guess I will have to bring them in because they are not supposed to be getting more water. After tomorrow, I will put them back out but if there is not significant improvement in 2-3 days, definately by the end of the week, i am going to buy some plants, whatever is available. It will be the first time I buy plants in 5 years, and it won't likely even be heirlooms unless I can find a few of the more common ones.

brownrexx · May 22, 2018

If you are thinking that watering is the problem and withholding water is not working then it is probably not the problem. Why not plant them in the ground and see if they start growing?

It should be warm enough for them to be planted in CT. Mine have been in the ground for 2 weeks in PA. I still suspect that potting soil.

Koala Doug · May 22, 2018

Sue, the curled leaves and branches will not uncurl. Just ignore the old, twisted growth.

What is important to watch is the new growth. If that is not curling as it grows, then you are on the right track. It can be difficult to assess its condition when the new growth is only a few centimeters long, so wait until the growth is a few inches to know if it is growing normally or not.

SueCT · May 22, 2018

There is no new growth that is not curled. THey still look the same. Will start watering lightly again and see if growth picks up. I did want the growth to slow so that the roots could catch up, hoping that would help. Nothing yet. I am just starting to harden them off so too soon to go into the garden. Also not sure I shouldl plant them just because I am afraid they are so behind at this point that I won't get fruit until much later than normal and my season is too short for that. Garden space is limited, better to buy new plants. I might see if I can find some of the more common ones locally and plant those and a few of the ones that are curling that I can't replace locally.

mobiledynamics · May 22, 2018

Sue. Have you taken them off the lights. Even by a very sunny window. What's there to lose...I would maybe consider putting one in dirt and see how it behaves.

SueCT · May 22, 2018

I have several in the garage tonight because I put them out in the shad yesterday it was supposed to rain today, and it is still raining. I can turn off the lights for a day or two and see. Only a little less than half went outside, the rest are still under lights.

mobiledynamics · May 23, 2018

a thought come to mind. knats chewin on the root. Personally.....MG potting soil is crap and is full of crap, literally. Try using it on a indoor potted plant and your house will be gnat city. Anyhow, if the weather allows, maybe even try transplanting one in a semi-shaded area in real dirt with some sun just to observe A/B (if at this point you are considering it quits on the lot)

SueCT · May 23, 2018

I guess it could be the soil, but I don't have a dislike for MG so I don't assume that must be the case. I have used it for 5 years without problems, including last year from bags bought at the same time. I mentioned previously I think, that I took several out of the cups to examine the roots and did not see gnats either on the top of the soil in soil in the cup. In the last 5 years I did have gnats one time and they were obious and taken care of by BT. I am concerned that since I stopped watering the growth has slowed down quite a bit but the one I checked yesterday still doesn't have an extensive root system although the roots I could see looked healthy. Might stick one in a pot and see what happens but it would have to be with the same soil. By the way, for some reason we don't have the choices in potting soil available that people furhter south so I do have to work with what is available. I could start watering with BT in the water, but if that is it, I probably don't have time to wait for them to recover. They would have to make a dramatic recovery.

Koala Doug · May 23, 2018

I'd pot them up into bigger containers and let the go outside and play for a while. Maybe they will recover... who knows?

I wish you luck though!

May 23, 2018	#28
mobiledynamics Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: 7B Posts: 281	a thought come to mind. knats chewin on the root. Personally.....MG potting soil is crap and is full of crap, literally. Try using it on a indoor potted plant and your house will be gnat city. Anyhow, if the weather allows, maybe even try transplanting one in a semi-shaded area in real dirt with some sun just to observe A/B (if at this point you are considering it quits on the lot) Last edited by mobiledynamics; May 23, 2018 at 08:45 AM.

May 13, 2018	#16
SueCT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,460	Wow, thank you everyone for all your posts and ideas. The potting mix was a giant bag I had not used up last year, and was stored in my garage so it stayed dry. Not sure if I used that particular bag for seedlings last year or potted plants, but I didn't see any evidence of contamination last year. It would have had to have been contaminated in my garage somehow and that seeems unlikely. I looked and looked and cannot find any aphids. The white dots on the pic might have been pieces of pearlite that are in the mix. Not positive, but I just can't be sure which leaf that was and can't find any actual bugs. The plants did shoot up pretty fast once transplanted so maybe they need to "slow thier roll" a bit, lol. If Carolyn is correct maybe the root growth didn't keep up with the top growth. Those leaves do feel a bit dry on the edges, so maybe not enough roots yet to feed and water all that growth. This would be the best possible reason. I WANT this to be the reason, lol. The combination of more light from the new lights and potting soil with fertilizer in it may have spurred more growth than was good. We also had a couple of days that were quite warm in the mid to upper 80s and there is no ac in that room and it got quite warm. That may have spurred some growth too. Since they do feel a little dry, I moved the lights up a few inches. It might decrease the heat over them a bit, and decrease the light they get somewhat to maybe slow them down a little. I am going to keep using the ceiling fan, which is gentle. Working on keeping them moist but not soggy. I started these a couple of weeks later than I usually do and I was concerned about how small they still were, and I transplanted them into the Miracle Grow when they were a bit smaller with less extensive root systems than in the past. So maybe it was a combination of all those things happening at one time. This pysiologic leaf roll can be scary stuff, lol. It looks so dramatic. Unless I start to see aphids or some other bug, or evidence of leaf disease, there doesn't appear to be much more I can do. I will keep an eye on them for that. I don't have other potting mix to try unless I buy new. The one large bag I have left is unopened but it is the same brand bought at the same time, so if it was contamintion at the source, it would likely be manufactured and packaged at the same time and it would likely be contaminated too. But these bags I think I bought 2 years ago. They were a good deal on Amazon with free shipping and the UPS gal and her partner carried them all up the drive and stacked them in my garage for me. How much better can you get with heavy bags of potting mix? For those like me who like to shop online and appreciate having everything delivered right to me, those UPS drivers are the unsung heros of our time.

May 14, 2018	#18
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	I had a bag of potting soil I bought last year that was super moldy looking inside when I opened it up after sitting a year It was stored inside and the moisture content must have been too high when packaged. Only time that ever happened to me. I don't know if it was a leaf mold or something nasty. Also, you never know if a bag is carrying any disease. In regards to lighting, duration per day is a factor also. Plants don't like too much light if the soil is dry. They will droop and later some of the leaves will shrivel/dry. Aphids usually hang around if there's a good meal to be had. Too much fertilizer will definitely cause the symptoms you had.

May 22, 2018	#22
SueCT Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,460	OK, I am close to throwing in the towel on the entiire lot this year. Have not watered most in at least 4 days, just a few that had actually started to wilt. No uncurling. Put them out on the north side of the house today, temps in the high 70's and they were in the shade from about 2 pm on. No change. It is supposed to rain tomorrow, so I guess I will have to bring them in because they are not supposed to be getting more water. After tomorrow, I will put them back out but if there is not significant improvement in 2-3 days, definately by the end of the week, i am going to buy some plants, whatever is available. It will be the first time I buy plants in 5 years, and it won't likely even be heirlooms unless I can find a few of the more common ones.

May 22, 2018	#23
brownrexx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 1,420	If you are thinking that watering is the problem and withholding water is not working then it is probably not the problem. Why not plant them in the ground and see if they start growing? It should be warm enough for them to be planted in CT. Mine have been in the ground for 2 weeks in PA. I still suspect that potting soil.

May 22, 2018	#24
Koala Doug Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Detroit Posts: 688	Sue, the curled leaves and branches will not uncurl. Just ignore the old, twisted growth. What is important to watch is the new growth. If that is not curling as it grows, then you are on the right track. It can be difficult to assess its condition when the new growth is only a few centimeters long, so wait until the growth is a few inches to know if it is growing normally or not.