Marijuana

[bower]

Durgan's OP is a bit misleading, it is not at all legal (yet) to grow marijuana in Canada unless you have an official permit and a prescription from a physician for medical use. This type of permit or license may be easy to get in some provinces but not at all in others. We have never had any dispensaries here in NL until very recently a couple of them popped up, I guess in anticipation of the federal law changes. Sad to say, they were raided by the police and shut right down. This happened only about a month ago. The fact it is supposed to be legalized soon, made no difference. Since they've taken their time about the promise to change this law, I would be happier if they had redirected police priorities in advance, but this has not happened.

Penalties for growing have always been a lot more serious than possession. I know a guy who got nailed for two little plants in his house - they treat it as 'production' no different than if you were running a meth lab! So I am +1 what A Little Salt said, exactly. I would like to have it for medical uses, but until it's legal, it would never be worth the risk to me, so I never have, and couldn't tell you anything about growing it.....
Except that the grower sites often pop up in my google searches for tomato and pepper issues, as they have some problems in common with us, like fungus gnats, mites, what lights to use for plants indoors etc. Also learned about using molasses for K+ supplement by stumbling on their (oh so many!!) sites. Everything you need to know about getting plants to flower in small pots in a closet! My peppers are duly grateful. Durgan, there's a ton of information on the internet, if you're planning to take up pot growing.

[HappyGardener23]

I can only comment based on Illinois where cannabis is legal for medical use for a number of conditions...it would be far less expensive to grow than to buy, but growing is not legal at any level with the exception of the few large-scale growers approved by the state. Approved patients are allowed to buy up to (the equivalent) of 2.5 ounces of cannabis every 2 weeks. This is an obscene amount, and I cannot fathom that anyone could actually use this quantity, but because physicians generally have no idea how to suggest that their patients use cannabis to help their conditions (which strains, in what forms and in what amounts and what frequency) just about every physician who writes the letter if their patient qualifies, gives full access to the 2.5 oz/2 weeks.

At the dispensaries, it costs about $50 for 1/8 oz. so doing the math, that would be $1000 cash out-of-pocket for the 2.5 oz. that are allowed (and not needed, but allowed nevertheless) every 2 weeks. It would be far more economical to allow people to grow a limited # of plants in whatever strain seems to work well for their condition. Education about how to best process the plant into useful forms (RSO, topical salves, tinctures, etc.) would also be helpful in advancing potentially effective medicine in an affordable way. IME however, the medical community is more about profit than about making medication affordable.

[Father'sDaughter]

As of December 2016, in Massachusetts a person over 21 years of age can posses up to 10 ounces, and each adult can grow up to six plants with a limit of 12 plants per household.

However, one law maker just filed a bill that would drop allowed possession down to two ounces and plants down to three per household.

What is still not allowed is selling--that doesn't kick in until July 2018 as they need to set up the process for permitting, regulating, taxing, etc. However, one adult can gift another adult up to one ounce if I'm remembering correctly.

It cannot be smoked in public, it is treated the same as alcohol when you have it in a motor vehicle (best to lock it in the trunk, and don't drive under the influence). Landlords cannot prevent their tenants from possessing or consuming it, they can only prevent them from smoking it indoors.

I haven't look at the final law since researching it prior to voting, but there were restrictions on outdoor growing such as minimum distance from other properties, necessary fence heights, required security measures, etc. I don't recall any restrictions on indoor growing other than the limit on the number of plants.

[dmforcier]

Look at weed you leave a harmless joint or gun in your car perfectly legal to all the powers that be.
Just don't go across the border.

I don't have a problem with state sovereignty, but it can make some Catch-22 situations. Texas Standard reported that an El Paso teacher visited some friends in Colorado over the break. Toked up - perfectly legally - then on her return failed a drug test.

She was summarily fired and the state(?) is trying to pull her teaching certificate so she can't work anywhere else in TX.

Not sure what lessons to draw from this example. (Ditching the federal (state = mini-country) system is not on the table.) Maybe make it clear that X person is not allowed to burn one down even outside the jurisdiction because the pee police will get ya'

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by pmcgrady

About 7 years ago I had a small lump in my neck, ... 38 radiations and 9 chemo treatments. When I started I weighed 207, when they got done I weighed 147. I couldn't eat, nausea was bad, I could only get down 2 Boosts or Ensures a day, I was supposed to drink at least 8. Then a friend gave me a bag of weed, I smoked it. My nausea went away, I got hungry again... it saved my life!

Very glad to hear your story from you yourself v. an obituary writer. Well done.

I read a fascinating book by Grant Archatz, a world class chef that was found to have Stage IV tongue cancer just as he was about to open what became the top-ranked restaurant in the US. Very much worthy of a read.

He spends considerable time on the effects of the treatment. Strangely, I can't recall if he resorted to the weed...

[BigVanVader]

I don't grow it or smoke it because obviously in the Bible belt where I am it is still illegal. That said I think the fact that it is even considered a drug is just plain stupid. Like Worth pointed out it all boils down to money, and how much control they can hold over that money. Nobody should be able to tell me I can't smoke something that grows in the ground, it's really no different than growing tomatoes, except tomatoes taste better and kill you faster. Most laws and government systems in general are a freaking joke enforced by indoctrinated idiots who have no souls and would gladly ruin thousands of lives to get that vacation home in Cabo. I will say this. If my kids needed it and ANYONE tried to tell me no, they'd be pushing up daisies in short order. Now I better climb off the soap box before I get too heated.

[Worth1]

The sad fact is and I hate to say it but I will.
Some of these people are getting prescriptions for their (so called) "condition" to "medicate".
This is so folks in many cases and in a legal way are able to stay stoned and many times not even work.
All paid for by insurance and or the tax payer.
This makes it look bad for people that really can use it for their help.
I have been around the block more than a few times and I know a pot head when I see one.

This is why I am for recreational use of it and make it so you can grow your own.
Too many doctors will prescribe just about anything for anyone.
Remember the over weight girls they used to get amphetamines?
Only to be sold on the street.
Or the so called fake back pain that is hard to diagnose.
2.5 oz of (good) weed no stems and seeds for one person every two weeks is the equivalent of staying stoned almost all of the time.

Then there is the problem of burned out brain cells.
And you darn right it can and will happen we called them 'Burn Outs.
Too much pot too often I have seen it and these people couldn't remember one day from the next.
People with lower IQ's it would happen real fast.
I remember all of their names to this day and I smoked weed as they did not just a ton of it plus I guess I had more brain cells to burn out.
My wife smoked it and made straight A's at UT.
Me I just wanted to take my clothes off down to my underwear and think about stuff.
I could not stand the feel of clothes touching me when I was stoned.
My favorite activity was tight line cat fishing on the river bank.
The sights and sounds of nature were awesome.

Smoking weed is fun and relaxing just like a drink or two after work.
When you do it all of the time and stay stoned out of your gourd 24 7 it is stupid.
I dont want to pay for some pot head to do this.
But I will gladly pay for a person that really needs it.
Worth

[dmforcier]

Approved patients are allowed to buy up to (the equivalent) of 2.5 ounces of cannabis every 2 weeks. This is an obscene amount, and I cannot fathom that anyone could actually use this quantity,

That is a lot, but from what I understand you have to use a lot if you ingest orally rather than burning spleefage.

[pmcgrady]

Originally Posted by HappyGardener23

I can only comment based on Illinois where cannabis is legal for medical use for a number of conditions...it would be far less expensive to grow than to buy, but growing is not legal at any level with the exception of the few large-scale growers approved by the state. Approved patients are allowed to buy up to (the equivalent) of 2.5 ounces of cannabis every 2 weeks. This is an obscene amount, and I cannot fathom that anyone could actually use this quantity, but because physicians generally have no idea how to suggest that their patients use cannabis to help their conditions (which strains, in what forms and in what amounts and what frequency) just about every physician who writes the letter if their patient qualifies, gives full access to the 2.5 oz/2 weeks.

At the dispensaries, it costs about $50 for 1/8 oz. so doing the math, that would be $1000 cash out-of-pocket for the 2.5 oz. that are allowed (and not needed, but allowed nevertheless) every 2 weeks. It would be far more economical to allow people to grow a limited # of plants in whatever strain seems to work well for their condition. Education about how to best process the plant into useful forms (RSO, topical salves, tinctures, etc.) would also be helpful in advancing potentially effective medicine in an affordable way. IME however, the medical community is more about profit than about making medication affordable.

Big Pharma can make lots more money selling pills (with bad side effects) than selling a weed that can be grown in anyone's back yard. It's all about money. When Illinois first legalized medicinal any person that applied that had an Illinois gun card (Firearms Owner ID) was notified by the state police to turn in FOID and dispose of your guns. It was soon reversed and so far it's legal to own guns and a medicinal marijuana card. Imagine if they made everyone in Illinois that was on prescription OxyContin or Vicodin turn in their gun card... The would be riots in the streets.

My better half's brother lives in Colorado and just retired at 56, the last construction jobs the company he owned were huge warehouses for commercial growers. He said everyone is making money...construction companies,power companies, growers, fertilizer companies, cities, the state etc. He also said that if I grew pot plants that looked as good as my tomatoes in Colorado I could do pretty well for myself

[Worth1]

How much did my wife and I smoke?
An oz of good weed would last us about two months or more and we kept it from the weedaholics.
We would also save up and stash back for the dreaded mid summer dry spell that always happened every year.
Once it was in the house it stayed there.
No running around with it in the car like an idiot for the police to find.
Then there was the problem of where to get it.
You had choices.
Worthless trash drug dealers and lord knows what.
Or reputable law biding job going people with no police drug record with their own network.
When I was 21 I got mine from and smoked with the older pillars of the community no joke.
When Nancy my wife found out who these people were when she married me she almost had a heart attack.
One was one of her teachers in high school.
I took her to go visit someone and when we walked in he said hi Nancy.
She said da ba da da ba what you--- Mr-----?
And Miss ---- what are you doing here?

Worth

[bower]

I don't know anything about oral dosages, but I heard it can be worse and easier to overdo it by eating even than smoking. I feel pretty certain that all the bad trips and nasty effects and fears that some people hold of cannabis after maybe one experience as teens, is simply due to way-way-WAY overdoing it. No it won't kill you but like Worth said, the drawbacks of too much MJ do seem to outweigh (if not cancel) the benefits.

Some years ago a friend gave me some pot to try on my problem with tremors. It was fantastic, totally restored my fine motor control, so as long as it lasted I used what I needed to work every day, and then I reckoned up how much I needed per day or per week, and looked into the prescription issue. I was pretty shocked when I saw the amount being licensed for daily use - it was about 100 X the amount that was effective for my dyskinesias and helped me to work.

I went and asked my doctor about it, but at that time anyway, it was not a condition that pot was approved for. Even the smallness of the amount didn't matter. The day it becomes legal and available I will be standing in line to get some for what it's good for. But seriously, I would be a useless piece of junk if I smoked the amount they think is 'medicinal'. Work? Lay down like a sack, more like it.

[HappyGardener23]

I think that there must be a misunderstanding here about how medical cannabis programs work. First, nobody is paying for anyone's medical use. Insurance does not cover it at any level. You can't even pay by check or credit card because of federal laws. Cash only. Additionally, many of the strains available for medical use are high CBD, low THC strains which means that there is no "stoned" to be had. Higher THC strains are often used at night by people who are plagued by insomnia due to pain, nausea, or directly caused by their condition. People looking for medical relief want to have a higher quality of life, not be out of it. Additionally, even with legal medical use, there may still be problems with employment as referenced above; your may have a card for legal use but you can still be fired by your employer if you test "dirty" or get your license yanked by a state licensing board because there have been no "rules" put in place around this.

As for physicians, it has not been my experience that they are jumping up and down to sign letters allowing patients with qualifying conditions to participate in the program. In fact, many hospitals initially refused to let their physicians sign letters for anyone for any reason because of concerns about licensure and liability. The pilot plan was in place in our state for 3 years before there were even dispensaries allowed to open, Then they had almost nothing to sell because all of the hoops to jump through and restrictions around allowing the plants to be manufactured into product and transported to the dispensaries (all production must remain in-state because the product cannot cross state lines). Then, it took a long time for people to get cards to be able to use the dispensaries, and they needed to be able to be fingerprinted, seen face-to-face by a doctor, have background checks, and provide passport photos, as well as pay hundreds of dollars to the process. As you can imagine, these hurdles alone preclude many people who are physically impaired/financially compromised from participating in legal programs.

As mentioned, it is also really expensive. I personally have no experience with ever buying and using cannabis recreationally, but from what I am told, the cost is comparable if not less than the dispensaries (although the dispensaries offer regulated quality with tested potency and a far greater variety of strain and "type" of product). Regardless of being allowed to legally use for medical reasons, selling is still illegal. I do not think that the average medical user was just waiting for the right moment to have access to a supply so that they could fulfill their dream of becoming a drug dealer (especially one barely breaking even because of the cost of the supply).

Lastly, with respect to people qualifying inappropriately/unethically. These are the approved conditions in Illinois. I imagine they'd be tough to fake, especially since doctors are supposed to have a history with their patients of three contacts minimum and trying other means before even signing a latter just to say that a patient has one of these qualifying conditions:
Agitation of Alzheimer’s disease
HIV/AIDS
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS)
Arnold-Chiari malformation
Cancer
Causalgia
Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy
Crohn’s disease
CRPS (complex regional pain syndrome Type II)
Dystonia
Fibrous Dysplasia
Glaucoma
Hepatitis C
Hydrocephalus
Hydromyelia
Interstitial cystitis
Lupus
Multiple Sclerosis
Muscular Dystrophy
Myasthenia Gravis
Myoclonus
Nail-patella syndrome
Neurofibromatosis
Parkinson’s disease
Post-Concussion Syndrome
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
Reflex sympathetic dystrophy
Residual limb pain
Rheumatoid arthritis
Seizures (including those characteristic of Epilepsy)
Severe fibromyalgia
Sjogren’s syndrome
Spinal cord disease (including but not limited to arachnoiditis)
Spinal cord injury is damage to the nervous tissue of the spinal cord with objective neurological indication of intractable spasticity
Spinocerebellar ataxia
Syringomyelia
Tarlov cysts
Tourette syndrome
Traumatic brain injury
Cachexia/wasting syndrome

Additionally, I think that it is AWESOME that you would be willing to financially support access for those who really need it. I know when my dad was in the hospital/rehab centers for months this past year, suffering with major complications from his ALS and I was trying to deal with the massive red tape around all of this, I could have used any help. Watching him waste away, suffer with pain, immobility, and constant nausea it was very frustrating to wait months for his medical card to arrive and all we could do was wait and watch. Providing him with anything illegally would have put us in jeopardy for "elder abuse" if he was urine tested, but the second he got his card, we could just add his cannabis drops/pills to the list of meds that they gave him daily like it was nothing (and he does not get high).

ETA: I agree that the amount that patients are allowed to purchase is crazy. Nobody can afford or needs those quantities. The doctors do not give any advice about strain, method of use, frequency, or quantity which is a big problem in the system. They literally just say that you qualify for the program, but that's it. It's like your doctor writing you a prescription for "pain medication" and then you get to go to the drug store and decide which prescription pain med to use, what dose, and how often. It makes no sense. And the only people to guide/advise you at the dispensaries are the people selling it to you, so there is obviously a conflict of interests there. The burden is on the patient to learn about the different strains, how their symptoms respond, and what/when/how much to medicate (but NOBODY is going to need 2.5 oz/2 weeks).

[dmforcier]

When Illinois first legalized medicinal any person that applied that had an Illinois gun card (Firearms Owner ID) was notified by the state police to turn in FOID and dispose of your guns. It was soon reversed and so far it's legal to own guns and a medicinal marijuana card.

There's a very stubborn anti-gun mindset in Illinois. They keep thinking up ways to get around the Second Amendment. For instance, Chicago flat-out banned handguns. The Federal Court declared the law unconstitutional. So they passed a law allowing handguns so long as the owner registered and took a course that included time at a gun range. The same law banned gun ranges! Back to court: unconstitutional. Then they allowed gun ranges but put zoning restrictions on them so tight that none have been built. And banned 18 and under from even entering one. Back to court: unconstitutional. So after years of litigation, it is still essentially impossible to legally possess a handgun in Chicago.

We can see just how effective that de facto gun ban has been, can't we?

[dmforcier]

my dyskinesias

Parkinson's? My (ex-)wife had/has Parkinson's and we never heard that it was effective for that. Maybe I should call her.





Good God! What am I saying?!

[AKmark]

Read what Lung.Org says, and others who work in the field. Information gathering is a long process, wade through the pros and cons, and don't forget to read the sites that have people who actually look at lungs every day. I really enjoyed studying philosophy concerning, "what is the truth."