Thrips, Mealybugs and Leafminers - Any Advice? - Page 2

**carolyn137** · March 8, 2006

Honu,

Any insecticide said to be effectrive against leaf miners is one I wouldn't use.

That's b'c leaf miners are inside the leaf and penetration is necessary to kill them and contact insecticides are just that, and don't penetrate that far. And systemic insecticides should not be used on edibles.

Seeing this thread come up again I thought I'd remind anyone reading here that we have a Forum here at Tville just for Pests and Diseases, and I think it would be nice to keep all such posts in that Forum for the benefit of all.

When this thread started that Forum only said Diseases, but that was changed quite a while ago.

Thanks.

honu · March 9, 2006

Carolyn,
(And systemic insecticides should not be used on edibles.)
Because of health effects on humans?
Are there systemic organic/OMRI rated pesticides?
Is Neem or Spinosad considered systemic?
Thanks very much for the information!

MsCowpea · March 9, 2006

There are several systemic insecticides used on tomatoes (and other vegetables) by commercial growers but the same active ingredient is not labeled for the homeowner to use. One that comes to mind is imidacloprid found in Provado and Admire.

Neither Neem or spinosad are systemic.

Any systemic rated as organic--no, not to my knowledge.

honu · March 9, 2006

MsCowpea, Thanks very much for that info! The local entomologist I spoke to mentioned imidacloprid for my tomato bug problem, but I wanted something organic/non-toxic. Would you have any organic/non-toxic suggestions to control Cyrtopeltis modestus on tomatoes?

MsCowpea · March 10, 2006

(Powers that be: Feel free to move this thread to Disease/Insect forum if you want.)

I looked up your bug and found it was a true bug (hemiptera). Other true bugs are stinkbugs and leaf-footed bugs-my arch enemies and very difficult to control.

One site said they were easy to kill with contact insecticide. They also said they were omnivourous-eating whitefly, aphids, spider mites, beneficials, insect eggs, etc. but apparently don't redeem themselves enough to warrant leniency.

So here are some suggestions from my stinkbug 'shock and awe' campaign

(though they probably weren't particularly shocked or awed) . For some reason I went from Stinkbug City to considerably lesser populations this year though I am not really attributing it to anything I did.

First--I catch them. They are tricky devils but I have learned to put a little plastic baggie or paper cup over the whole tomato they are sitting on and shake them into it. This is particularly gratifying when you get a whole little group-meeting of nymphs. Leaffooted bugs are harder as they are better and quicker flyers.

How about your bug? Are they super quick or could you catch them?

2. contact spray-pyrethrin (but I never just spray the whole plant as I want to preserve beneficials as much as possible.) Monitoring and keeping on top of your bug is THE most important thing you can do because once you slack off bugs multiply exponentially. You could spray your bug directly when you see it.

They feed on flowers so I was wondering if you could use pyrethrin spray at dusk on infested flowers when bees are not foraging. Pyrethrin is toxic to bees but supposedly doesn't have a long residual effect (don't use Sevin-deadly to bees and their whole nest when they bring it back on pollen and it persists longer)

I used Bull's Eye (spinosad) on thrips --might not work on your adult bugs but may on earlier stages.

3. ATTRA (organic site) mentions Surround for (I think it was ) squashbugs (same family) . This one is promising --insects don't like to stick around or lay eggs on plants sprayed with Surround. (I bought some but haven't tried it yet.)

4. Get rid of old plants right away-the populations of bad bugs really build up on them and no one monitors dead or dying plants. Ditto weeds.

Good luck--that is one bug we don't have in Florida but I suppose it is just a matter of time.

(oops, forgot about neem--feeding deterrent. Don't know if it would work or not. worth a try though.)

HERE IS THE SITE--same bug
http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/TRA...tomato.bug.pdf
_________________
MsCowpea (aka farkee)
"When we kill off the natural enemies of a pest we inherit their work."
Carl Huffaker

honu · March 10, 2006

MsCowpea, Thanks for the link and suggestions! YES that's them all right... grrr!

Have not tried pyrethrins or neem because I was afraid of harming the beneficials, and there are some hardworking bees buzzing around till almost sunset.
Their population has exploded in my garden and they have become a worse problem than any fungal, mite or other problem I had before because 100% of my blossoms are now dropping, and all new shoots are girdled and dying.
They are fast too, they fly on and off quickly, so it's hard to catch them with soap spray. And when I do spray them w/ insecticidal soap, they seem to just shrug it off and continue on. I have been spraying every morning and not making a dent. I guess I have to move on to stronger stuff. A local entomologist said Spinosad will not work on them, and recommended imidacloprid, but I'm not willing to try it... yet.
I sure hope you don't ever get these in Florida!
Where did you get your Surround?
Thanks for your help!

MsCowpea · March 11, 2006

Honu, I got the Surround from Gardens Alive. You can read about it on their webpage.

William, that is an excellent idea about the screening. I have thought about doing something like that too.

Farkee (MCP)

sweetwm007 · March 11, 2006

farkee- i am sure it is not for everything or everyone. it sure worked for me on my tomatoes.
i have envisioned a minature hoop house covered in window screening over, lettuce, carrots, peas, radishes, bush beans, squash etc. while it isn't practical to do something like corn, you can let your mind wander.if i am wasting my time, i would rather have it being done on projects that don't infringe on mother nature. besides, i like dinking around.
if you look in the SSE catalog, you will see wooden structures that appear to have screening on them. while i don't know what they are for, would guess it is to prevent cross- pollination.
william

DonnaMarieNJ · May 7, 2006

At this point the only sprayer I have is a 24 oz size. And for now (while my plants are just seedlings) that is all I need. How much dish soap should go in this bottle? I have what my neighbors call "aphids" although I couldn't find a picture online to verify this fact. I picked the bugs off the plants and would like to do something to keep them away. I will get a bigger sprayer soon as I am sure I will need it when my plants get larger.

sweetwm007 · May 7, 2006

donna m- check earlier posts on this thread for your formula.
william

DonnaMarieNJ · May 8, 2006

I had already read the entire thread. I saw that post, but I had a much smaller container as I stated.

I was concerned about using too much soap in my small sprayer.

Maybe what I'll do is just make a gallon of the stuff and just pour it into my sprayer. I certainly don't need that much, but it won't go to waste.

March 8, 2006	#16
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Honu, Any insecticide said to be effectrive against leaf miners is one I wouldn't use. That's b'c leaf miners are inside the leaf and penetration is necessary to kill them and contact insecticides are just that, and don't penetrate that far. And systemic insecticides should not be used on edibles. Seeing this thread come up again I thought I'd remind anyone reading here that we have a Forum here at Tville just for Pests and Diseases, and I think it would be nice to keep all such posts in that Forum for the benefit of all. When this thread started that Forum only said Diseases, but that was changed quite a while ago. Thanks. __________________ Carolyn

March 9, 2006	#18
MsCowpea Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: S. FLorida / Zone 10 Posts: 369	There are several systemic insecticides used on tomatoes (and other vegetables) by commercial growers but the same active ingredient is not labeled for the homeowner to use. One that comes to mind is imidacloprid found in Provado and Admire. Neither Neem or spinosad are systemic. Any systemic rated as organic--no, not to my knowledge. __________________ "When we kill off the natural enemies of a pest we inherit their work." Carl Huffaker

March 10, 2006	#20
MsCowpea Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: S. FLorida / Zone 10 Posts: 369	(Powers that be: Feel free to move this thread to Disease/Insect forum if you want.) I looked up your bug and found it was a true bug (hemiptera). Other true bugs are stinkbugs and leaf-footed bugs-my arch enemies and very difficult to control. One site said they were easy to kill with contact insecticide. They also said they were omnivourous-eating whitefly, aphids, spider mites, beneficials, insect eggs, etc. but apparently don't redeem themselves enough to warrant leniency. So here are some suggestions from my stinkbug 'shock and awe' campaign (though they probably weren't particularly shocked or awed) . For some reason I went from Stinkbug City to considerably lesser populations this year though I am not really attributing it to anything I did. First--I catch them. They are tricky devils but I have learned to put a little plastic baggie or paper cup over the whole tomato they are sitting on and shake them into it. This is particularly gratifying when you get a whole little group-meeting of nymphs. Leaffooted bugs are harder as they are better and quicker flyers. How about your bug? Are they super quick or could you catch them? 2. contact spray-pyrethrin (but I never just spray the whole plant as I want to preserve beneficials as much as possible.) Monitoring and keeping on top of your bug is THE most important thing you can do because once you slack off bugs multiply exponentially. You could spray your bug directly when you see it. They feed on flowers so I was wondering if you could use pyrethrin spray at dusk on infested flowers when bees are not foraging. Pyrethrin is toxic to bees but supposedly doesn't have a long residual effect (don't use Sevin-deadly to bees and their whole nest when they bring it back on pollen and it persists longer) I used Bull's Eye (spinosad) on thrips --might not work on your adult bugs but may on earlier stages. 3. ATTRA (organic site) mentions Surround for (I think it was ) squashbugs (same family) . This one is promising --insects don't like to stick around or lay eggs on plants sprayed with Surround. (I bought some but haven't tried it yet.) 4. Get rid of old plants right away-the populations of bad bugs really build up on them and no one monitors dead or dying plants. Ditto weeds. Good luck--that is one bug we don't have in Florida but I suppose it is just a matter of time. (oops, forgot about neem--feeding deterrent. Don't know if it would work or not. worth a try though.) HERE IS THE SITE--same bug http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/TRA...tomato.bug.pdf _________________ MsCowpea (aka farkee) "When we kill off the natural enemies of a pest we inherit their work." Carl Huffaker __________________ "When we kill off the natural enemies of a pest we inherit their work." Carl Huffaker

March 11, 2006	#22
MsCowpea Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: S. FLorida / Zone 10 Posts: 369	Honu, I got the Surround from Gardens Alive. You can read about it on their webpage. William, that is an excellent idea about the screening. I have thought about doing something like that too. Farkee (MCP) __________________ "When we kill off the natural enemies of a pest we inherit their work." Carl Huffaker

March 9, 2006	#17
honu Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Hawaii Posts: 270	Carolyn, (And systemic insecticides should not be used on edibles.) Because of health effects on humans? Are there systemic organic/OMRI rated pesticides? Is Neem or Spinosad considered systemic? Thanks very much for the information!

March 11, 2006	#23
sweetwm007 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: yellville, arkansas Posts: 29	farkee- i am sure it is not for everything or everyone. it sure worked for me on my tomatoes. i have envisioned a minature hoop house covered in window screening over, lettuce, carrots, peas, radishes, bush beans, squash etc. while it isn't practical to do something like corn, you can let your mind wander.if i am wasting my time, i would rather have it being done on projects that don't infringe on mother nature. besides, i like dinking around. if you look in the SSE catalog, you will see wooden structures that appear to have screening on them. while i don't know what they are for, would guess it is to prevent cross- pollination. william

May 7, 2006	#24
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 731	At this point the only sprayer I have is a 24 oz size. And for now (while my plants are just seedlings) that is all I need. How much dish soap should go in this bottle? I have what my neighbors call "aphids" although I couldn't find a picture online to verify this fact. I picked the bugs off the plants and would like to do something to keep them away. I will get a bigger sprayer soon as I am sure I will need it when my plants get larger.

May 8, 2006	#26
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 731	I had already read the entire thread. I saw that post, but I had a much smaller container as I stated. I was concerned about using too much soap in my small sprayer. Maybe what I'll do is just make a gallon of the stuff and just pour it into my sprayer. I certainly don't need that much, but it won't go to waste.