Florida Everglades Tomato

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Muslickz

Does anyone in Florida have experience growing these? I'm looking for something that will withstand most of the Floridian foliage diseases.

I lost dozens of plants in the past two years to early blight and septoria and leaf spot. I was hoping that being native to Florida these may not be so susceptible to these issues?

-Mike

You've just posted in a thread where many who have grown it have discussed it.

There are few of us who have had seasons with no Early Blight or Septoria Leaf Spot, but I sure wouldn't turn to growing a wee fruited Wild Everglades plant just b'c of that.

And breaking news, as they, in my last annual seed offer here in jan I listed a couple of SPECIAL ones where I didn't have enough seeds to either SSE list or offer in my seed offer, and four folks, the limit I set, signed up to grow what I called pink currant, not the real name, that has yet to be decided by the person who provided the seeds.

His name is Ted, and he's from FL and picked up a plant at a nursery that was just labelled Everglades, and when the fruits appeared he thought they looked pink. I was excited by that sine I knew of only one other pink currant, and that bred by Tim Peters, which is no longer available.

Ted didn't know how to save seeds so I told him to just take some fruits and smush them up, put them in a strong baggie, and send them and he did, they arrived and I set them up for fermentation.

TWo folks who got the seeds from me have alreday confirmed that they also got pink ones, which one has to check by checking the epidermis color, and I have to check with the other two. They're supposed to be sending me back seeds so I can offer it here for 2013 and if enough seeds to SSE lsit as well.

Ted sent fruits to another person whom I know and we're in contact as well, and she also confirmed that they were pink currants.

So I'm happy, to date, about the current, pun intended, situation.

[Keiththibodeaux]

Originally Posted by Muslickz

Does anyone in Florida have experience growing these? I'm looking for something that will withstand most of the Floridian foliage diseases.

I lost dozens of plants in the past two years to early blight and septoria and leaf spot. I was hoping that being native to Florida these may not be so susceptible to these issues?

-Mike

I got my last seeds free. You might try just asking on this board for some. I think it will handle your climate for sure, but I must tell you taste wise, it is nothing special.

[kurt]

About 8 years ago did grow some.They get large,sprawl all over, grow all year.Can be large as a nickel,small as a pea.I did manage to "manicure"one plant and cage real nice and got some real good tasting maters.But as I said before you need a lot of handfulls to make a mouthfull.If you have a part of your yard thats needs something put a couple of these down and let them be and you will have maters all year.On a single plant they will be tart,very good and sometimes kind of sour.

[kurt]

I live here in Homestead Fl.I am 1 mile east of the "Glades"It grows wild all throughout my area.We have a fishing camp in Everglades City which is across the state (west)and it also grows wild.I have spoken to some original familys from the area that migrated to Ev.City some 80 years ago and they were told that the Spaniards (pirates )introduced them to the Ft.Meyers area when they used the west coast as thier staging areas and ports.Thier are some books about a pirate named Gaspar that mentioned tomatoes in the area brought on ships from S America.They do grow massive and in a clump of plants you will see some pinks and light reds.A clump meaning maybe 20-30 plants 20-30 foot round in all stages of life.They are a little on the tart side for me and a pain in the butt to pick since you need so many to make a mouthful.So in the minds of the Everglade City residents they should be considered a hierloom but I don't think they really care becuase of thier independent and controversial history.The town is notorious for its rum/drug/pirate infused history.

[carolyn137]

The town is notorious for its rum/drug/pirate infused history.

*****

I think so since it's pretty well accepted that it was Spanish missionaries who left Mexico taking with them seeds for what we know as red currants, and they went along the Gulf Coast spreading seeds where they went, kind of like John Chapman, aka Johnny Apple seed/

And that's why there are so many red currants still along the Gulf Coast and down into FL. And many of them are listed in the Other Species section of the SSE YEarbooks.

And not all of them taste the same b'c some have been grown in isolation for hundreds of years now.

[PA_Julia]

Being a native Miami born Floridian I'd love to grow this one!


Julia

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by PA_Julia

Being a native Miami born Floridian I'd love to grow this one!


Julia

Which one, the red or the pink?

[PA_Julia]

WOW!! Really?? Well both then!!!

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Which one, the red or the pink?

[meadowyck]

Well, this history is very colorful, glad to hear about it, guess I'll be looking around for some seeds.

Julia, I too am from Miami, but the time I was born there it was a much different place then it currently is.

[Fusion_power]

The Spanish spread currant tomatoes (S. Pimpinellifolium) from Mexico along the Gulf Coast and into FL hundreds of years ago

They were first distributed by native Americans who brought them from the Andes to Mexico and in the process spread them throughout central America. From there, they were spread around the world by Spanish explorers.

S. Pimpinellifolium originated in the Andes, probably near the Peru/Ecuador border. There are several hundred accessions in TGRC. I have grown most of the core collection of about 40 varieties for the species. As a group, they tend to be much more diverse than cultivated tomato. Disease tolerance genes are common including ph2 and sometimes ph3, and perhaps a third that is not currently named. These genes appear to me to ramp up production of glycalkaloids such as tomatene which tend to protect the plant from fungal diseases. One side effect of this is that the compounds produced by disease tolerant plants can often be tasted in the fruit. This is one reason why tomato breeders try to increase plant sugars in the fruit.

Matt's Wild Cherry contains ph2 which gives some protection against a few strains of late blight. It is a reasonably good cherry type tomato.

If you want to try an unusual currant tomato, LA2533 is pretty unique. The best I can tell, it has ph3 which conveys another form of late blight tolerance. Another interesting accession is LA0722 which has 6 different disease tolerance genes that are not found in our cultivated tomatoes.

Tolerance to septoria is another story. Many types of tomato exhibit a weak form of septoria tolerance because they grow fast enough to outgrow the disease. The plants that do this tend to be pea size currant tomatoes which means the plant does not tie up a lot of energy producing fruit. Said another way, it is impossible to get a large fruited tomato that outgrows septoria. Everglades Wild tomato appears to be to be of this type.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

Darrel, I will say that I've seen no documentation whatsoever that native Americans brought S.pimpinellifolium or any other varieties from South America from Peru, Chile, etc. to Mexico. It would solve a long standing problem if it did, but no proof whatsoever.

Everything I've read has said there is no proof that humans brought the wild ones, as it were, from S America and bird droppings and even wind have been put forward as possibilities. The question of the pimps going from Chile to the Galapagos Islands I also find interesting and there there's a possibility that humans were involved in that.

Dr. Esther Van der Knapp and others working on the evolution of the tomato is one person I know, and I do know her, still working on it and no doubt she and others are using some of the accessions from the Rick Center as well. I haven't kept contact with her but should, still have her e-mail address and when the snow flies and/or I remember I will do so to find out what I can.

[J-Wright]

There is archaeological evidence on the Gulf coast of FL that there was trade going on among the native peoples of FL and those of Meso-America prior to the arrival of the Spanish. Just exactly what the trade route was is unclear.

The exploration of Florida and the establishment of missions was directed from Cuba, as Florida was part of the Governorship of Cuba. Cuba, as well as Puerto Rico and Panama, were very valuable assets of the Spanish crown, as evidenced today by the fortresses guarding the harbors of the major cities. So too was St. Augustine with Castillo de San Marco and a guard tower standing at the Matanzas Inlet south of St. Augustine. The famous expeditions of Ponce de Leon and Hernando de Soto both originated in Cuba. Many Catholic missions were established in the interior of Florida, the hub of activity being St. Augustine.

Back to tomatoes, it is unlikely that the currant tomatoes that escaped in Florida came directly from Mexico. They many have come indirectly from a ship that stopped in Cuba before setting out to cross the wide Atlantic and were then brought to Florida.

However, the romantic notion that Spanish missionaries spread the plant around the Gulf crescent is unlikely. The historical record does not show any Spanish missions in Florida that have Mexican origins. Cuban via St Augustine? Plenty. A major tributary of the Suwanee River is named after the Spanish mission established near its banks: Santa Fe. In summary, the Spanish settlement of Florida west to near the mouth of the Mississippi originated from Cuba. I categorically reject the notion of a Fr. Juanito tomate pepita plodding the thousand miles around the Gulf crescent planting indigenous tomatoes. I feel certain that the native peoples would have already adopted any viable food source, let alone one that was tasty.

I will decline to conjecture how the Spaniards would have gotten past the French in Louisiana.

Although a trivial matter, it would be fascinating to trace the genes of the various "wild tomatoes" of the Americas and learn its origin and its travels.

[carolyn137]

There will always be theories that are hard to prove.

The Spanish were the first to take species, apparently what we call currant ones today, from Mexico and spread them to Cuba, to their spice routes to the Far East and the Phillipines and of course back to Spain where the first ones there were acutally yellow. And sure, if the dates are right they could have spread some in FL as well.

But I think one does have to account for the the large population of currants along the Gulf Coast, Louisiana not withstanding, ahem, and I just read a great book about the settlement of Louisiana by the French via Canada, it was about what are called basket ladies who were recuited by the French as wives for the French as well as the French running out of recruits and sending felons and prostitutes as well, to up the population.

By any chance have you read the book by Andrew F Smith on the history of the tomato. he's a well respected tomato historian and his research is well documented.

I didn't mean to sound romatic when speaking of missionaries, not at all, and yes, I am familiar with the history of FL and Cuba, etc., but what it comes down to is dating as to what happened when and where and that's hard to prove as you said yourself with your suggestion about trade routes pre-Spanish occupation of Mexico.

I love a good mystery.

[J-Wright]

Just two weeks ago the discovery of de Soto's encampment of 1539 between Gainesville and Ocala was confirmed and announced. According to the archives he encamped and rested his men adjacent to a large town of the First People.

I have never seen a wild tomato in the wild or if I did I didn't know what it was. It would be fascinating to know if either the Spanish or the First People grew the fruit in the interior of the peninsula, how far north it survived (cold tolerance), and the genetic relation of the various currant tomatoes to each other. Is the "Everglades" genetically the same as the "Mexican" or "Andean?" How different is the "Galapagos?" If any plants do still survive in the interior of the peninsula, how similar/different are they from those from the Gulf coast?

There are examples of migrations of the First People wherein they brought with them plants that were food sources as evidenced by the absence of pollen in the archaeological record prior to the migration. An example where I live in North Central Florida is a wild plum commonly known as the "Chickasaw Plum" (Prunus angustifolia).

Regarding trade between the First People of Florida and Meso-America: Artifacts have been found on the Gulf coast made from obsidian. Clearly those objects would have had to have come from somewhere that had volcanoes, the closest being what is now Central America. What is not clear is how long and how many trades did the objects take to make their way to Florida.

[gardenhappy]

I love the currents all colors just for the size for Adults and children.We pack them up to go on park hikes and camping trips.In our community garden classes we teach on healthy cooking and eating and use these as well as others for snack ideas.I love to toss them in salads and the kids make Celery logs with cream cheese and then put the littlest ones they can find down the middle and eat them.

If anyone has yellow or pink I'd love to get those. All mine so far are red and yes I would love more reds,we grow" sweet pea",just plain old name "current" and I use to have" spoon" but when i spent most of last year in the hospital I lost a ton of my plants and Am starting all over again.
Look over at the wanted for my list to trade or Florida Tag Thread is another list of my to trade.