My latest disease problem

[mdvpc]

I called Botanicare today and got lucky. I talked with one of their engineers about clearex. He is a tomato grower, but hydroponic. He had the same problem, described it to a T. He gave me instructions how to use the clearex.

I asked him why my plants were doing great 3 weeks ago but went down the tubes. What he explained (here is my interpretation of what he was saying) was that when the salt builds up sufficiently around the roots, it stops the plant from taking up sufficient water so that even though the mix is well hydrated, the plant is dehydrated and dies from insufficient water. The clearex' job is to push the salt out from around the roots and out the container.

The goal is to get 80% of the clearex (1 tblspoon per gallon) flushed out of the container, so it takes the built up salt around it. So what he suggested was to hydrate the container to the point that the growing mix cannot take in any more fluid, so that the clearex in the gallon of water can flush the salt out.

I am going to try this. Ami was kind enough (as he always is to try and help out) to pm me about using hydrogen peroxide, and I am going to try that if this doesnt work.

[carolyn137]

Let me know if you can help.


****

Michael, all I can say is I'll try to help. it means making a few contacts, some of which I know and some I don't and have to get the relevant contact infornation.

Don't look for an ASAP response b'c I've got a lot on my plate right now.

If you felt close to NY and chose the variety New Yorker just b'c you spent 3 years in the village, well, you weren't in a very good tomato area there.

[mdvpc]

Carolyn-

No problem, see about the salt-tolerant varieties when you have time.

I have no recollection seeing tomato plants ever in the Village-I did see lots of mice and rats-big rats!

[amideutch]

Came across this while researching Hydrogen Peroxide.

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...3&size=largest

Effects of high salinity on Mycorrhiza.

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=pjbs.2008.1909.1915

And one more that may be of interest. Ami

http://www.cropscience.org.au/icsc20...bhattarrai.htm

[liannenc]

mdvpc, where did you buy the Clearex? I'm having exactly the same problem with my container-grown (in coir) plants-- Carmello seems to be the hardest hit, with Paul Robeson faring slightly better. So far my Goose Creek and Marianna's Peace show only minor symptoms.

I was relieved to find out that this probably isn't some sort of virus-- between your pics and the ones on the aggie-horticulture site, I feel reasonably confident that this is my problem. However, I want to get this resolved ASAP since I have only four plants... I really don't want to lose even one of them!

The thing I can't figure out, though, is how the salt damage is occurring in the first place. I don't think our tap water is particularly salty, but I've never had reason to find out about it. When I get home from work tonight, I intend to read the links that ami and dice have posted, because I'm thinking some of the information in those articles may enlighten me. In the meantime, I need to get some Clearex FAST, so if anyone knows a fast-shipping supplier, I'd appreciate any suggestions.

[mdvpc]

I got my clearex from wormsway.com.

[dice]

Greentrees and Planet Natural have had prompt shipping
when I have ordered from them. Planet Natural will get
back to you in email right away if something that you
order is not in stock:

http://www.hydroponics.net/i/132158
http://www.hydroponics.net/i/131062
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/clearex.html

Look in the phone book. If there is a hydroponics store
anywhere close, they probably have it on the shelf.

[liannenc]

dice, I took your advice and lucked out-- there IS a hydroponics store in Charlotte, and they DO have Clearex in stock. I'm heading over there right after work today to get some.

mdpvc, just to be sure I understand what you were told about using this stuff-- you use plain water to superhydrate the growing medium, then apply the Clearex mixture as directed? I also saw that they recommed foliar spraying first with plain water, and I can definitely do both. I'm going to ask when I get to the store-- I'm hoping that if they run the place, they know how to use the products.

[mdvpc]

I just saw your post. Make sure if you get any of the clearex on the plant that you wash it off right away. Let us know your results.

[liannenc]

I applied the Clearex on Thursday evening and got what I think was adequate runoff, per the label instructions. As far as I know I didn't get any on the plants. So far, not much change, but the progression of leaves turning yellow seems to have stopped.

My Carmello and Paul Robeson are still looking mighty spindly, and I'm suspecting a phosphorus deficiency. If it's not one thing, it's another! Kinda reminds me of my job, though (I handle workers' comp claims)-- never boring!

[mdvpc]

The spindly may be related to the salt choking off the roots-I have that on a couple of containers. I am trying some hydrogren peroxide on two varieties-port and sunmaster-one with clearex, one with hydrogen peroxide.

[liannenc]

mdvpc,
How is your treatment with Clearex & hydrogen peroxide going? I think I spoke too soon-- I noticed tonight that the yellowing on Carmello is spreading and even the main stem on the plant is looking a bit yellow. I'll try to get some pics tomorrow and post them. Between the yellowing, spindliness and leaf roll on this plant, I'm wondering if I should pull it. It *is* setting fruit, though, so I'm trying to take a wait-and-see attitude. I'm wondering if I should try another Clearex treatment... and what do you do with hydrogen peroxide? I tried a search here but couldn't find anything useful about how to "treat" with it.

My Paul Robeson is also still looking spindly with a lot of leaf roll, but no yellowing noted... yet. It is the only plant of my four which has not set any fruit yet. One weird thing I realized is that both of these plants are on a side of our deck that's not very far from an area where my husband sprayed Round-Up a couple of weeks ago. He was very careful to do this on a calm day and that area is at least 30 feet from the deck, but I have to wonder if I may be dealing with herbicide drift. Or, even though I'm growing in containers, is some systemic disease likely? Since I'm using pure coir, I'm more inclined to think it's some sort of nutrition problem (too much or too little) but it's so frustrating not to be able to figure this out!

My Goose Creek looks pretty good generally, although the foliage droops something awful late in the day, especially now that it's getting hotter. It freaks my husband out a bit, but I think that this plant typically has somewhat droopy foliage, and I've told him that we DON'T need to water it every time it wilts a bit.

Marianna's Peace is the best looking of the four-- some slight yellowing on bottom leaves, but nothing that looks unusual. Also, it's the best "fruit setter" of them all, with lots of little tomatoes in different stages of development. This one plant gives me hope! I think I'm going to take something that a lady who works at my local nursery told me to heart: "Plant enough to allow for some loss-- if you plant 6, count on losing two of them". If I had backups I wouldn't be quite so upset about these issues. I won't make that mistake again!

[amideutch]

Michael, came across this while doing some research on calcium. Might be of interest concerning your salinity problem. Key phrase here is "WSD" Water Saturation Deficit. Ami



Movement of Calcium (45Ca) to Fruit from Peduncle of Tomato Plants
Motofumi Nomura, Hiroshi Hasegawa3 and Masaharu Masuda
(Department of Eco-physiology for Crop Production)
Movement of calcium (45Ca) from the peduncle to fruit of tomato during the day and
night was investigated. Further, the effects of additional NaCI to the culture solution on
the water potential in plants and 45Ca movement to fruit were also examined.
The activity of 45Ca on a dry weight basis in the peduncle was higher during the day
than at night, however, in calyx and fruit the 45Ca activity was similar both during the
day and night. Import of 45Ca into the leaves from the peduncle was not different
between the day and the night.
Additional NaCI to the culture solution resulted in a greater water saturation deficit
(WSD) of the immature leaves just below the 2nd and 3rd trusses, unlike with the
mature leaves below the 1st truss where the WSD did not decrease with NaCI treatment.
On the other hand, the activity of 45Ca in the peduncle and calyx was not different
between the NaCI treatment and the control. However, the activity in the distal part of
the fruits was lower with NaCI treatment than in the control.
These results suggested that the high WSD effectively decreased the import of
calcium into fruits from the peduncle. It seems that the import of 45Ca into fruit is not
only dependent on the conductive tissues but also a possible driving force in xylem
water flow, and that NaCI interferes with movement of calcium in the fruits.
Key words : Tomato fruit, NaCI-stress, 45Ca movement

Here's another link on salinity and calcium uptake. I'm beginning to wonder if high salinity is your only problem. I did not here you mention any problems with BER on previous grow outs!

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...tract/58/5/679

[dice]

[Roundup]
Here is a picture of a Roundup damaged plant:
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...hosate_Tom.htm

(This disease/deficiency/damage guide for tomatoes seems to
get better and better every time I happen to access it:

http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...omWiltKey.html
)

[Blueaussi]

Cornell rocks!

I use their vegetable database, plus I participate in some of their citizen science programs.