My Cocktail tomato trial - Page 2

sirtanon · November 28, 2011

Very interesting stuff. Interesting that they're discontinuing Campari in Europe. I wonder if that means they'll make them available in the US...

gourmetgardener · November 30, 2011

Europe is always 4-5 years ahead of us in varieties. Usually the breeders (Enza Zaden, Rijk Zwaan, De Ruiter, and Hazera) consider us a second tier market, Mexico third tier, and places like India, China fourth tier. A lot of the Campari acreage is Europe has been replaced by Adoration, Arlinta, Baylee, and Annelise for the organic segment. Campari was never a restricted club variety in Europe, so any grower could have it - in fact I've seen it offered to the small hobby growers - but it is hugely expensive - $1560 per 1000 seeds, $1250 per 1000 for 5000 seeds and up, and in small quantities of 25 seeds it sells for 30 euros.

As for being available in the US, I doubt it. The Campari Cartel which formerly consisted of BC Hothouse (A Co-op of growers), Eurofresh, Houwellings, Sunset Produce (Mastronardi), and Village Farms - Houwellings and BC Hothouse foods have since bowed out - making it the big three. Other breeders have come up with comparable offerings - Rijk Zwaan (Tastery Rz, Amoroso Rz), DeRuiter (Red Delight).

You can purchase Annelise seed (same breeder as Campari, newer variety) from Seeds of Change, and Red Delight from DeRuiter from Paramount seeds.

sirtanon · November 30, 2011

While I can appreciate the potential need for market growers to have seeds like Campari, Annelise, etc.. available for mass plantings in their F1 forms, I just can't justify the expense of $13 for 10 seeds of Annelise or similar, especially when I multiple forums have shown that saving seeds from a campari tomato results in plants that are remarkable close to the F1 fruit... or when I can buy Stupice or Kimberly for $3 or less for 30 seeds..

Nevertheless, thanks for the info. I'm sure there's value for growers like yourself.

moon1234 · December 31, 2011

Bejo is also a Euro breeder and they offer a lot of their seed to US markets. I grow many of their varieities (not just tomatoes).

The things people forget is that disease pressure is very different based on where you are in the country. For me, being in Wisconsin, Bejo is sort of ideal. They are at a very similar latitude so their breeding is designed for the climate I have in my area.

I am going to be trying mountain magic next year as well. Early blight AND late blight are always problems in my area. The two varieties I grew last year were Sweet Million and Tami-G (agriset).

Sweet million is not a good looker. It is red, but is not a show winner. What it lacks in color was made up in taste. I had people buy 100 or more pounds at a crack and they kept coming back for me.

Tami-G is a grape tomato. It is firmer, but still sweet. It was a HUGE setter. At the end of the season I had vines almost 10 feet tall. We had to top them to get the rest of the fruit to set before frost. We still lost some though.

Tami-G seemed to be more suscepibile to Early blight, but they kept setting fruit even when the lower third of the plant was defoliated. Sweet Million seemed to have more of a sudden death. I am hoping mountain magic will allow me a larger harvest, later in the season.

I am also looking for a golden cherry tomato this coming season. I am thinking sungold. My chefs want a little color.

I grew only beefsteaks last year and I lost over 90% of them due to the weather being too hot. That was my second year with tomatoes and the first time I lost so many of the big toms. This year my seedway rep is recommending the following:

BHN-589
Mountain Fresh Plus (He said not great taste, but guaranteed set)
Red Bounty

Those are the three I am thinking of planting. I would love to plant more, but toms are a secondary crop for me. Melons and corn are my two main crops.

gourmetgardener · February 10, 2015

New cocktail tomato varieties I have tried:
Red Delight
Bellini
Kierano
Mai Tai

Bellini is an orange Campari type tomato. Flavour was outstanding. Plant vigour low. Kierano is by far the best red cocktail - beats Campari and Annelise. Mai Tai fruit was like a large cherry, but outstanding flavour.

November 28, 2011	#16
sirtanon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ (zone 9b) Posts: 796	Very interesting stuff. Interesting that they're discontinuing Campari in Europe. I wonder if that means they'll make them available in the US... __________________ I could sail by on the winds of silence, and maybe they won't notice... but this time I think it would be better if I swim..

November 30, 2011	#18
sirtanon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ (zone 9b) Posts: 796	While I can appreciate the potential need for market growers to have seeds like Campari, Annelise, etc.. available for mass plantings in their F1 forms, I just can't justify the expense of $13 for 10 seeds of Annelise or similar, especially when I multiple forums have shown that saving seeds from a campari tomato results in plants that are remarkable close to the F1 fruit... or when I can buy Stupice or Kimberly for $3 or less for 30 seeds.. Nevertheless, thanks for the info. I'm sure there's value for growers like yourself. __________________ I could sail by on the winds of silence, and maybe they won't notice... but this time I think it would be better if I swim..

November 30, 2011	#17
gourmetgardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada (Zone 6b) Posts: 119	Europe is always 4-5 years ahead of us in varieties. Usually the breeders (Enza Zaden, Rijk Zwaan, De Ruiter, and Hazera) consider us a second tier market, Mexico third tier, and places like India, China fourth tier. A lot of the Campari acreage is Europe has been replaced by Adoration, Arlinta, Baylee, and Annelise for the organic segment. Campari was never a restricted club variety in Europe, so any grower could have it - in fact I've seen it offered to the small hobby growers - but it is hugely expensive - $1560 per 1000 seeds, $1250 per 1000 for 5000 seeds and up, and in small quantities of 25 seeds it sells for 30 euros. As for being available in the US, I doubt it. The Campari Cartel which formerly consisted of BC Hothouse (A Co-op of growers), Eurofresh, Houwellings, Sunset Produce (Mastronardi), and Village Farms - Houwellings and BC Hothouse foods have since bowed out - making it the big three. Other breeders have come up with comparable offerings - Rijk Zwaan (Tastery Rz, Amoroso Rz), DeRuiter (Red Delight). You can purchase Annelise seed (same breeder as Campari, newer variety) from Seeds of Change, and Red Delight from DeRuiter from Paramount seeds.

December 31, 2011	#19
moon1234 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 54	Bejo is also a Euro breeder and they offer a lot of their seed to US markets. I grow many of their varieities (not just tomatoes). The things people forget is that disease pressure is very different based on where you are in the country. For me, being in Wisconsin, Bejo is sort of ideal. They are at a very similar latitude so their breeding is designed for the climate I have in my area. I am going to be trying mountain magic next year as well. Early blight AND late blight are always problems in my area. The two varieties I grew last year were Sweet Million and Tami-G (agriset). Sweet million is not a good looker. It is red, but is not a show winner. What it lacks in color was made up in taste. I had people buy 100 or more pounds at a crack and they kept coming back for me. Tami-G is a grape tomato. It is firmer, but still sweet. It was a HUGE setter. At the end of the season I had vines almost 10 feet tall. We had to top them to get the rest of the fruit to set before frost. We still lost some though. Tami-G seemed to be more suscepibile to Early blight, but they kept setting fruit even when the lower third of the plant was defoliated. Sweet Million seemed to have more of a sudden death. I am hoping mountain magic will allow me a larger harvest, later in the season. I am also looking for a golden cherry tomato this coming season. I am thinking sungold. My chefs want a little color. I grew only beefsteaks last year and I lost over 90% of them due to the weather being too hot. That was my second year with tomatoes and the first time I lost so many of the big toms. This year my seedway rep is recommending the following: BHN-589 Mountain Fresh Plus (He said not great taste, but guaranteed set) Red Bounty Those are the three I am thinking of planting. I would love to plant more, but toms are a secondary crop for me. Melons and corn are my two main crops.

February 10, 2015	#20
gourmetgardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Canada (Zone 6b) Posts: 119	New cocktail tomato varieties I have tried: Red Delight Bellini Kierano Mai Tai Bellini is an orange Campari type tomato. Flavour was outstanding. Plant vigour low. Kierano is by far the best red cocktail - beats Campari and Annelise. Mai Tai fruit was like a large cherry, but outstanding flavour.