Do i have enough pressure for BIY drip line or tape system? - Page 2

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwavec

Sorry, MrSalvage but I think you are misdescribing almost everything. Look at your waterline
from the well to the home. You say 202' downhill and then 63' uphill but I do not believe for
one second that these numbers are the vertical difference. The picture just does not look like
a 202' change in elevation. Then look at your "uphill" portion. The line you draw for that part,
although it may not be fully representative, is not even equal to the height of the home, which
surely is not more than about twenty feet.

You need to understand that water pressure in a closed system depends on the vertical
distance and that the horizontal distances really have nothing to do with it until you start
running water through those pipes and hoses. I suggest you go and get yourself an
inexpensive laser level and measure those vertical differences, in steps if you have to.
Then you will have a much better idea of what you need to do.

Hey how are you doing? This drawing I made only represents the amount of distance between points on the ground. I did this with a 100 ft tape measure. So this drawing is in no way a factual representation of elevation or vertical distance in any way shape or form man. However a picture is worth a thousand words & that's why I posted it.

I think I do have a pocket laser that I can place on the top of the Well. Then get a measurement of where the laser hits the Mobile Home. If i had to guess it looks like the laser would hit right at the top of the back window. Then I could measure how many feet it is to the ground & or hose bib. I wonder if that kind of measurement would help?

Thanks for your post and the idea!

Now I have my 5 gallon bucket and hose set up to measure GPM at the garden. So I will have that data a little later today.

Thanks
Bill

Worth1 · May 24, 2016

Bill I think you will find the faucet to be around 10 feet lower than the top of the well.
That it a wild guess but I bet I am close.
You more than likely have around a 2 to 3 foot rise in elevation from the faucet to the garden.
These elevations aren't even worth considering only the fact you arent loosing pressure and gaining a wee bit.
Also unless you start putting out a ton of water with a huge drip system you dont need to worry too much about flow.
The gallons per minute and pressure is important.

Look at the price difference between 3/4 and 1 inch pipe.
It isn't enough to amount to a hill of beans in your plans but can play a huge role in water delivery.
Even if you have 3/4 coming from the well and you want to go that 100 feet to the garden use 1 inch it can make a difference.
Here is a myth about smaller pipe.
Smaller pipe does not increase pressure it increases velocity.
Velocity in pipe is your enemy.
What it does is decrease pressure while it is flowing due to friction loss.
The only reason they use it is to save money.
And example of this is my place.
I have about 100 feet or so of 3/4 inch copper line coming from my meter at 50 PSI static water pressure.
My flow rate at the faucet is 10 gallons a minute.
My flow rate at the meter is 23 gallons per minute.
That 3/4 line killed 13 gallons per minute of water delivery due to friction loss.
When I put my sprinkler system in I came directly from the 3/4 line at the meter and jumped up to 1 1/2 pipe from that at the valves I put in one inch pipe.
At no place other than the heads themselves do I have anything smaller than 1 inch.
This in effect killed any friction loss and stopped water hammer.

You might not need that 1 inch now for drip but as you said you want to expand, you might not be able to with 3/4.
I over size wire and pipe for this reason.
Drip isn't too much of a big deal you can get away with a lot.
Buy or find yourself two gauges and use them to calculate your system.
Put one at the water source and one at the end of the line at the garden.
The first reading will be supply pressure and the latter will be residual pressure.
This will tell you exactly how much drip line you can get away with.

Lets say you have 50 PSI at the supply and you put in 100 feet of line and turn it on.
The supply gauge drops to 30 psi and you can get away with 10 PSI on the drip line.
This will tell you that you can put in about 200 more feet of drip line.
The gauge at the other end will give you your friction loss reading.
If it is 25 psi it tells you you have around 5 PSI of friction loss.
This reading will get bigger the closer you put it to the supply side.
When you get to that target point of 10 psi on any zone it is time to start another zone.
No fancy math just two gauges and some common sense.

With your set up now you dont need to worry too much.

Worth

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Okay Worth thank you for all your time. I will install 1 inch then for the main.

I went ahead and got the GPM for this place. I took three readings.

38 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water
42 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water
40 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water

Now the math... I see it posted somewhere here.

Cole_Robbie · May 24, 2016

If this helps, the drip tape I use has 12" emitter spacing, and the flow rate on it is one GPM for every 200'

Drip tape is meant to run at 10-12 psi. Typically it's connected to a municipal supply and requires a pressure regulator to lower the pressure.

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

If this helps, the drip tape I use has 12" emitter spacing, and the flow rate on it is one GPM for every 200'

Drip tape is meant to run at 10-12 psi. Typically it's connected to a municipal supply and requires a pressure regulator to lower the pressure.

Yep that helped too Cole... Thank you!

Cole where do you buy your main line a drip tape from?

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajun_gardens

well .. a close estimate would be to turn it wide open and fill up a bucket size of your choice and time it ..

A flow test is optional, but suggested if you are not positive about the size or type of water supply pipe. The flow test should be run at a faucet as close as possible to the point you will tap into the water pipe for your irrigation system.

Get a 5-gallon bucket. Old paint buckets work great. Since most 5-gallon buckets actually hold more than 5 gallons of water, you will need to calibrate the bucket as follows: Find an accurate measuring container, and measure out 5 gallons of water into your bucket. Then mark the water level on the side of the bucket with a marking pen so you can easily see it. ?The test is simple. Put the bucket under your water outlet pipe and time how long it takes to fill the bucket to 5 gallons. ?The formula for calculating the flow in GPM is: 300 divided by the seconds it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket = GPM.

Cajun hooked us up with this nugget...

Worth1 · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

Okay Worth thank you for all your time. I will install 1 inch then for the main.

I went ahead and got the GPM for this place. I took three readings.

38 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water
42 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water
40 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water

Now the math... I see it posted somewhere here.

So you are putting out about 15 gallons a minute.

Now here is something else to think/worry about.

Make sure you dont toss out so much water you kill you supply to the house while it is on.
A fact is water will take the path of least resistance just like electricity.
Give yourself about 1/2 of that water to be on the safe side.

Worth

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

So I am running 7.5 Gallons per minute. Which is way more than the drip tape Cole suggested needs at my highest spot in the whole yard. I should be golden now thanks to all of you guys!

Cole_Robbie · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

Cole where do you buy your main line a drip tape from?

Morgan County Seed. They're in Missouri.

https://www.morgancountyseeds.com/pr...rts/drip-tape/

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

So you are putting out about 15 gallons a minute.

Now here is something else to think/worry about.

Make sure you dont toss out so much water you kill you supply to the house while it is on.
A fact is water will take the path of least resistance just like electricity.
Give yourself about 1/2 of that water to be on the safe side.

Worth

You math and mine don't match Worth. I took three separate readings. I would fill the bucket and time it. Then i would dump it out and do it again.

I took the average of the three which is 40 seconds and divided by 300. I came up with 7.5 GPM.

Is this math correct?

Thank you
Bill

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Morgan County Seed. They're in Missouri.

https://www.morgancountyseeds.com/pr...rts/drip-tape/

Thanks Cole! While i have you what is the difference?

I am looking at the Chapin 10 3000 12

https://www.morgancountyseeds.com/pr...in-10-3000-12/

10- rolls, per roll
1-4 rolls, per roll
5-9 rolls, per roll

What doe all this per roll mean?

Cole_Robbie · May 24, 2016

It's bulk pricing for large farms who buy multiple rolls.

MrSalvage · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

It's bulk pricing for large farms who buy multiple rolls.

Ah I must say that did confuse me. Okay so what else do I need? I have this in the cart...

Chapin 10 3000 12
Options:
1-4 rolls, per roll

$82.50 -
1
+ $82.50

1" Header Line
Options:
100 feet

$20.00 -
1
+ $20.00

Sorry to bug you so much...

Worth1 · May 24, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

So I am running 7.5 Gallons per minute. Which is way more than the drip tape Cole suggested needs at my highest spot in the whole yard. I should be golden now thanks to all of you guys!

I dont mean to complicate things but I have seen some crazy disasters from home do it yourself sprinkler systems.

I came home one time and the water pressure was so low I could hold my finger on it and stop it.
I ask several neighbors and they said yes it has been low for awhile several days.
Are you kidding me has anyone called and none of them had.
They gave me the run around about it being a high usage time and such rot.
They can also monitor my area with a computer and it said everything was okay.
Well that pressure is read on the up stream side of the regulator (PRV) not the down stream side it is broken.
It was 7 in the evening and I complained so much they sent the engineer out.
When he got to my house I had a gauge showing less than 5PSI.

All it took was for them to adjust the PRV up the street.

I have had to call several times on it and when I call someone is there in less than 30 minutes most of the time.

Worth

Cole_Robbie · May 24, 2016

There's a tape-loc fitting for each row that attaches the tape to the header. And you probably want the punch to make the hole for it, unless you are good at making holes in poly pipe. I have used a drill bit before.

You might as well get a couple of the fittings to splice the tape, the repair couplers.

You'll also need a pressure regulator and filter with housing.

I use the paper catalog. I would recommend placing your order over the phone, and letting them make sure you have everything you need and that it will all connect.

573-378-2655. The last time I placed an order, it sounded like a little girl on the other end. Ask for Vera or someone who can help you with drip irrigation. They are a small-time operation, and very country, so they require patience on your part. But they are good people and 100% honest about everything in my experience.

I will also be ordering black plastic mulch from them after I run out. You might start thinking about that, too.

And I'm a big fan of the 4-18-38 tomato fertilizer they sell. They also sell calcium nitrate, but I found it a lot cheaper at my local farm supply store. I use both of them with a fertilizer injector.

May 24, 2016	#30
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	There's a tape-loc fitting for each row that attaches the tape to the header. And you probably want the punch to make the hole for it, unless you are good at making holes in poly pipe. I have used a drill bit before. You might as well get a couple of the fittings to splice the tape, the repair couplers. You'll also need a pressure regulator and filter with housing. I use the paper catalog. I would recommend placing your order over the phone, and letting them make sure you have everything you need and that it will all connect. 573-378-2655. The last time I placed an order, it sounded like a little girl on the other end. Ask for Vera or someone who can help you with drip irrigation. They are a small-time operation, and very country, so they require patience on your part. But they are good people and 100% honest about everything in my experience. I will also be ordering black plastic mulch from them after I run out. You might start thinking about that, too. And I'm a big fan of the 4-18-38 tomato fertilizer they sell. They also sell calcium nitrate, but I found it a lot cheaper at my local farm supply store. I use both of them with a fertilizer injector. Last edited by Cole_Robbie; May 24, 2016 at 02:00 PM.

May 24, 2016	#17
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Bill I think you will find the faucet to be around 10 feet lower than the top of the well. That it a wild guess but I bet I am close. You more than likely have around a 2 to 3 foot rise in elevation from the faucet to the garden. These elevations aren't even worth considering only the fact you arent loosing pressure and gaining a wee bit. Also unless you start putting out a ton of water with a huge drip system you dont need to worry too much about flow. The gallons per minute and pressure is important. Look at the price difference between 3/4 and 1 inch pipe. It isn't enough to amount to a hill of beans in your plans but can play a huge role in water delivery. Even if you have 3/4 coming from the well and you want to go that 100 feet to the garden use 1 inch it can make a difference. Here is a myth about smaller pipe. Smaller pipe does not increase pressure it increases velocity. Velocity in pipe is your enemy. What it does is decrease pressure while it is flowing due to friction loss. The only reason they use it is to save money. And example of this is my place. I have about 100 feet or so of 3/4 inch copper line coming from my meter at 50 PSI static water pressure. My flow rate at the faucet is 10 gallons a minute. My flow rate at the meter is 23 gallons per minute. That 3/4 line killed 13 gallons per minute of water delivery due to friction loss. When I put my sprinkler system in I came directly from the 3/4 line at the meter and jumped up to 1 1/2 pipe from that at the valves I put in one inch pipe. At no place other than the heads themselves do I have anything smaller than 1 inch. This in effect killed any friction loss and stopped water hammer. You might not need that 1 inch now for drip but as you said you want to expand, you might not be able to with 3/4. I over size wire and pipe for this reason. Drip isn't too much of a big deal you can get away with a lot. Buy or find yourself two gauges and use them to calculate your system. Put one at the water source and one at the end of the line at the garden. The first reading will be supply pressure and the latter will be residual pressure. This will tell you exactly how much drip line you can get away with. Lets say you have 50 PSI at the supply and you put in 100 feet of line and turn it on. The supply gauge drops to 30 psi and you can get away with 10 PSI on the drip line. This will tell you that you can put in about 200 more feet of drip line. The gauge at the other end will give you your friction loss reading. If it is 25 psi it tells you you have around 5 PSI of friction loss. This reading will get bigger the closer you put it to the supply side. When you get to that target point of 10 psi on any zone it is time to start another zone. No fancy math just two gauges and some common sense. With your set up now you dont need to worry too much. Worth

May 24, 2016	#18
MrSalvage Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: VA - Zone 7A Posts: 344	Okay Worth thank you for all your time. I will install 1 inch then for the main. I went ahead and got the GPM for this place. I took three readings. 38 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water 42 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water 40 Seconds per true 5 gallons of water Now the math... I see it posted somewhere here.