Pomodorino del Piennolo del Vesuvio (Spongillo)

[ilex]

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

De colgar is a general spanish term that means " to be hanged", referring in this case to tomatoes species that can be hanged to dry.

No, de colgar tomatoes are not dried, nor intended for drying. They are used fresh or cooked, not dried. They are hanged, because that's how they store longer, but can be stored in other ways.

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

Piennolo means pendolum or to be hanged in oscillation. I've lived in spain fo 2 years and i know what you are referring to. However in terms of quality they cannot be compared to Piennolo which is infact a european protected designation of origin (PDO). This title is not so easily granted and is strictly regional.

I'm not sure I tried the right thing. What I grew as Piennolo was not that good, and it didn't store for long. Everybody says otherwise and that's why I'm not sure I grew the real thing. What I do know very well is that "de colgar" tomatoes can be extremely tasty with amazing quality right from the plant.

You don't know all the "de colgar" varieties, nobody does. Their diversity is overwhelming with many many hundreds of varieties.

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

The Piennolo can be eaten fresh from harvest however due to a thick skin (which allows for the long coservation) is better to have it stored in clusters (as per my avatar) and used to cook later during the year. The taste that it develops is quite unique and makes a tomato sauce of unparalleled taste and overall quality. I am referring to the ones grown there, in that region. Anywhere else taste and quality will be different, possibly inferior. it is still worth a solid try though.

There should be more than thick skin to make it a long storage tomato. As I wrote above, many de colgar varieties can be eaten fresh from harvest.

I've heard a lot of stories telling that a certain variety will only taste well in a certain place. Obviously conditions affect flavour, but the only way to compare things properly is under the same conditions.
Good varieties, when grown under good conditions, tend to be good tasting, and better tasting than bad varieties. I'm not so sure that a special adaptation will prevent great flavour when grown in places were tomatoes in general develop great flavour.

[rhoder551]

This the first I've heard of any type of tomato that can be saved and used fresh over winter. I'm intrigued... off to look for some seeds.

[Malabar Circle]

Originally Posted by ilex

No, de colgar tomatoes are not dried, nor intended for drying. They are used fresh or cooked, not dried. They are hanged, because that's how they store longer, but can be stored in other ways.



I'm not sure I tried the right thing. What I grew as Piennolo was not that good, and it didn't store for long. Everybody says otherwise and that's why I'm not sure I grew the real thing. What I do know very well is that "de colgar" tomatoes can be extremely tasty with amazing quality right from the plant.

You don't know all the "de colgar" varieties, nobody does. Their diversity is overwhelming with many many hundreds of varieties.



There should be more than thick skin to make it a long storage tomato. As I wrote above, many de colgar varieties can be eaten fresh from harvest.

I've heard a lot of stories telling that a certain variety will only taste well in a certain place. Obviously conditions affect flavour, but the only way to compare things properly is under the same conditions.
Good varieties, when grown under good conditions, tend to be good tasting, and better tasting than bad varieties. I'm not so sure that a special adaptation will prevent great flavour when grown in places were tomatoes in general develop great flavour.

Hi there,
I beg to differ. "to dry" was not the best word i could choose. We have many dry tomatoes and it is a different thing. Maybe seasoned..not sure, but the point is they are used a few months after harvesting them.
In one of the videos i embedded, the guy is cooking spaghetti with Piennolo, when he cuts them you will see that inside they are not dry at all.

I've lived in Spain 2 years, 1 in Sevilla. While in marbella i' ve seen many women utilizing tomatoes de colgar in a similar fashion to the Piennolo, when they had already been harvested for a while. They were consumed fresh as well, but trust me...not only.
If you speak Spanish, this is a video that will clarify this for you. And she says that they consume them in winter as they last long time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXqXtivaTOw

No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.

[carolyn137]

(No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.)

Allow me to tell you something about Ilex, since I know him well. He is one of the major sources of many varieties from Spain, just one other in Spain, from Mallorca, also sources new Spanish ones.

And yes,I have been to both Portugal and Spain myself,and of course Seville and Madrid and so many more places and also Morocco on the 3 week trip.

Due to EU regulations in Spain, not all countries have the same EU regs, he cannot sell seeds in Spain, so he joined SSE in the US as a listed member and can sell them from there and at last look was listing, let me check, 133 varieties of tomatoes, along with peppers and squash and eggplant.

He recently listed what he was growing this summer and I didn't know any of them. I deal with him directly in Spain,he knows what I prefer and then sends the new ones , about 22,should arrive any day now,then they get listed in a spreadsheet and my now 7 seed producers make their selections, and his request price is very low and also includes shipping.

I am amazed at the biological diversity of ones grown in Spain, but it makes sense when one considers that after the Spanish overcame the Aztecs, they bought back seeds from S America and at that time Portugal and Spain were one country.

So nothing bogus about Ilex at all as you wrote above, whether his many de colgar ones or beefsteaks, or hearts, or striped ones or whatever..

Carolyn

[seaeagle]

I think he said the seeds may have been bogus, not the man, at least that's how I read it

[ilex]

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

Hi there,
I beg to differ. "to dry" was not the best word i could choose. We have many dry tomatoes and it is a different thing. Maybe seasoned..not sure, but the point is they are used a few months after harvesting them.

Well, usually, when you select a tomato for its long keeping qualities, you, well ... store it for a while. That's what you are selecting for, and that's why you grow it. It's more a decision than a need.

Here, drying tomatoes are not rare, I only have 1 drying tomato variety in my collection, and it comes from the mountains far from the sea. Nobody even tries to dry tomatoes here, it's a waste of time. You can't store dry tomatoes here fall to spring, at least not without plastic.

The solution was "de colgar" tomatoes. It was the only way to store tomatoes for winter. It was the perfect tomato for subsistence farms. Cheap, easy, productive ... providing fresh tomatoes all year long.

They can be used in many ways, and there are different varieties for different uses. Some are intended for salads, for cooking, for salsa ... and the most important use ... for bread rubbing.

It's true that they change in storage, and taste and aroma change in storage. Aroma specially can increase in storage. Most varieties are better for bread rubbing after some time in storage, as softer flesh works better. Some varieties are soft from day one, but for other uses, you don't need to wait. Other varieties never get soft, while others are fantastic in salads for over 4 months.

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

In one of the videos i embedded, the guy is cooking spaghetti with Piennolo, when he cuts them you will see that inside they are not dry at all.

I've lived in Spain 2 years, 1 in Sevilla. While in marbella i' ve seen many women utilizing tomatoes de colgar in a similar fashion to the Piennolo, when they had already been harvested for a while. They were consumed fresh as well, but trust me...not only.
If you speak Spanish, this is a video that will clarify this for you. And she says that they consume them in winter as they last long time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXqXtivaTOw

I've lived in Spain a bit longer than you , and right in the middle of these tomatoes center of diversity. I don't consider Sevilla nor Marbella, places were there's a huge use of these tomatoes.

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.

I have a seed bank devoted to these tomatoes, starting, but already over 100 varieties, so I've tried a few. There are not many readily available in the markets, and probably over half of what is sold around are fake hybrids. I would be surprised if you really have a good perspective from Sevilla and Marbella.

We are talking at probably around 1000 surviving varieties. I believe they are the most diverse tomato group in the world. Basically they only share their long storage capabilities, and usually are on the small size with hard skin. Every other trait can and does change among varieties.

[Locomatto]

Enzymatic activity in all fruit will continue after harvesting, and this can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on the fruit in question. Banana's, for example, will gradually develop a more intense flavor as they continue to ripen.

In the case of tomatoes, most varieties will spoil long before any enhancing of flavor can be gained ... with the exception of longkeeper varieties. Longkeepers, whether they be Spanish, Italian, or American will last much longer after harvesting, allowing the flavors to gradually develop and enhance over time as various enzymes continue to remain active within the fruit.

I believe that this was what Malabar Circle was trying to get at.


And I am also sure that there are lots of different uses they can be put to. Some longkeepers will be better for cooking with, and some will be better for drying, and some will be better for flavoring bread (really great idea by the way Ilex) in the dead of winter ... and everyone will have his or her own favorites.

That's what makes tomatoes so wonderful. All the different varieties out there, and all the different ways that people find to use a simple member of the nightshade family. After all, how boring would it be if there really was the proverbial "perfect tomato" and everyone agreed there was no equal? Then what would we talk about?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

I think he said the seeds may have been bogus, not the man, at least that's how I read it

I don't disagree at all, I just wanted to clarify who Ilex is and his experiences in growing what he does and why.

Carolyn

[Malabar Circle]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

(No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.)

Allow me to tell you something about Ilex, since I know him well. He is one of the major sources of many varieties from Spain, just one other in Spain, from Mallorca, also sources new Spanish ones.

And yes,I have been to both Portugal and Spain myself,and of course Seville and Madrid and so many more places and also Morocco on the 3 week trip.

Due to EU regulations in Spain, not all countries have the same EU regs, he cannot sell seeds in Spain, so he joined SSE in the US as a listed member and can sell them from there and at last look was listing, let me check, 133 varieties of tomatoes, along with peppers and squash and eggplant.

He recently listed what he was growing this summer and I didn't know any of them. I deal with him directly in Spain,he knows what I prefer and then sends the new ones , about 22,should arrive any day now,then they get listed in a spreadsheet and my now 7 seed producers make their selections, and his request price is very low and also includes shipping.

I am amazed at the biological diversity of ones grown in Spain, but it makes sense when one considers that after the Spanish overcame the Aztecs, they bought back seeds from S America and at that time Portugal and Spain were one country.

So nothing bogus about Ilex at all as you wrote above, whether his many de colgar ones or beefsteaks, or hearts, or striped ones or whatever..

Carolyn

I have maximum respect for you as a moderator. However you should not alter the connotation of the words i have written, implying or suggesting a meaning that is at best misleading. Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo. SEAEAGLE spotted that right away.
You have made a mistake.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Malabar Circle

I have maximum respect for you as a moderator. However you should not alter the connotation of the words i have written, implying or suggesting a meaning that is at best misleading. Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo. SEAEAGLE spotted that right away.
You have made a mistake.

I was posting back to you when all of sudden I was kicked off Tville, the same database problem that others here have referred to and just got back about 30 minutes ago.


I'm glad you have respect for me,I appreciate that.

Yes,I know that you were referring to the seeds that Ilex was growing but you posted

(Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo.
You have made a mistake.)

It was you who referred to what Ilex was growing as bogus that did not reflect Piennolo, not Ilex.

If anyone told me I was growing bogus seeds I would take exception to that and very strongly.

No,I have not made a mistake as I just tried to clarify for you.

Carolyn

[Labradors2]

I notice that Tania says these are PL whereas they are supposed to be RL to be correct.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Piennolo_del_Vesuvio

Even if they are incorrect, I understand that they are very tasty, even when fresh

Linda

[cwavec]

@Malabar Circle:

Can you elaborate on the meaning of "Spongillo". In your very first post
you add that in parentheses and go on to say something about it as an
alternative name for the variety.

But what does this mean and what does it refer to; maybe something
having to do with the soil?

Then again there seems to be a little discrepancy popping up.
Mentioned above by Labradors2, it seems that your Pomodorino del
Piennolo have a regular leaf while Tania's Tomatobase says clearly
that they are expected to have a potato leaf.

Is it possible that there is more than one variety or that even after
many (human) generations of selection, there could still be a
considerable amount of variation. Where did you get your seeds?

[Locomatto]

I think it would be an interesting experiment for someone to grow the PL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio side by side with the RL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio that Malabar Circle is growing.

... so many projects ... so little garden space ...

[cwavec]

It's nothing more than the little protrusion at the bottom of the fruit.

Molti sono i nomi popolari attribuiti al prodotto e, spesso,
variano di città in città: è un esempio il termine “pomodoro
di spongillo”, per la puntina nella parte inferiore del pomodoro
(sponda), che, in altri comuni diventa “spuncillo”.

[cwavec]

I would like to see a little clarification of what is meant, in relation to a tomato,
by the terms "long keeping" (ilex, #21), "long storage capabilities" (ilex, #21),
"longkeeper varieties" (Locomatto, #22).

I'm assuming to start with that this is not the same as some recently bred hybrids
created just to cater to the "retail long chain" (I know I have that incorrect but I
hope it's illustrative enough as I can't think right now of the actual words). In other
words, the post-harvest period that includes sorting, packing, shipping, shelving,
sale and finally consumption. At least one of these has been promoted by an
otherwise favorite seed producer as being capable of shipment from Almeria to
Moscow and return and arriving back home in the same condition as when it left.

It seems to me that this is not at all the same objective as one would seek when
engaging in the Piennolo process.I'm trying to understand a bit about how that
process works and what actually happens to the fruit when it is undertaken. Also,
what characteristics most contribute to its success.

On the contrary, I'm sure that some of these new hybrids are explicitly bred so that
they cannot ripen. They can get plenty red though.

Again, it seems that this is not a quality that the Pomodorino del Piennolo shares.
Would someone knowledgeable kindly comment on that?