Fertilizer mix to encourage fruit set - Page 2

b54red · August 12, 2015

Despite nearly two months with days near 100 and very high humidity my plants are still setting fruit. I use TTF every week to ten days. It keeps the plants healthy and setting despite more than unfavorable conditions. It should be cooling down a bit soon with the nights getting into the low 70s and maybe even lower and days in the low 90s and that should really boost fruit set. At least on the ones the spider mites didn't kill.

Some of my newer plants that were set out in May and mid June are setting really good while others are only setting moderately. I think variety makes a huge difference in the heat of summer. Varieties like Indian Stripe, Spudakee and Pruden's Purple are setting heavier than most other varieties right now but even the shy producers like Donskoi and Brandywines are setting some fruit. The biggest problem I have besides dealing with spider mites is getting out and pruning and tying up plants in this oppressive heat.

Bill

tyrupp · August 12, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by b54red

Despite nearly two months with days near 100 and very high humidity my plants are still setting fruit. I use TTF every week to ten days. It keeps the plants healthy and setting despite more than unfavorable conditions. It should be cooling down a bit soon with the nights getting into the low 70s and maybe even lower and days in the low 90s and that should really boost fruit set. At least on the ones the spider mites didn't kill.

Some of my newer plants that were set out in May and mid June are setting really good while others are only setting moderately. I think variety makes a huge difference in the heat of summer. Varieties like Indian Stripe, Spudakee and Pruden's Purple are setting heavier than most other varieties right now but even the shy producers like Donskoi and Brandywines are setting some fruit. The biggest problem I have besides dealing with spider mites is getting out and pruning and tying up plants in this oppressive heat.
I set out prudens purple and red october sets on june 15 and today I harvested 2 prudens. The most underrated heirloom I have ever tasted or grown.
Bill

amideutch · August 13, 2015

Quote:

Despite nearly two months with days near 100 and very high humidity my plants are still setting fruit

Bill, are these plants grafted or a combination of grafted and non grafted?

Ami

b54red · August 17, 2015

Other than a couple of volunteers that came up in my pepper bed and then died quickly due to fusarium all of my plants have been grafted plants the past two years. I don't believe that has anything to do with them setting in the high heat though because I got the same results in the past with a few heirlooms that avoided getting fusarium or nematodes by using the same techniques to encourage fruit set in the heat.

There are so many things that can hinder fruit set when it is really hot; but the one thing that will guarantee very little fruit set in high heat conditions is lack of adequate moisture. I have noticed over the years that just one day of inadequate moisture can affect most of the blooms on a plant negatively. While plants are small it is really easy to keep the moisture levels high for good fruit set in the heat but once the plant is mature and loaded with ripening fruit it is very difficult to do without affecting the existing fruit negatively. I try to maintain a balance so I get some fruit set and some cracking from watering in order to maintain some production for the future. I frequently mess up by delaying watering too long in order not to cause too much fruit cracking and cause excessive blossom drop and other times I over water and ruin some of my nearly ripe fruit but at the same time usually get more fruit set. Maintaining good fruit production in high heat is a balancing act and it takes practice to get it right more often than wrong.

Bill

Fusion_power · August 17, 2015

There are times I would love to have a "chastize" button to whack everyone for posting seriously bad advice about things like fertilizer.

First and foremost, find out what the soil you are growing in has for available nutrients. Get a soil test! Then use the soil test to figure out what your plants actually need to blossom and produce fruit.

Some basics about soil: N is highly mobile and easily leached out of soil. If you apply N and a couple of decent rains come for a visit, your N will be gone. K is nearly as bad, it is usually fairly mobile in soil though not usually as much as N. K will wash down in the soil out of range of the plants root system. It is still there, just harder to get. P is a sluff off. He never moves. In fact, he can get so bound up in some soils that he is unavailable no matter how hungry your plants get.

So where does this leave the container gardener? Well, he has a greater challenge because his soil volume is limited and the plant must extract everything needed from what is available.

What about PH? Soil PH is critical in making nutrients available to your plants. If you have not checked the PH, you are missing the biggest opportunity to improve your plants root system and production potential.

So who's suggestion is closest to a good general purpose fertilizer for tomatoes? Well, Miracle Grow did the research and produces 18-18-21 specifically for tomatoes. This is a general purpose formula that works in most soils, but will cause serious problems if PH is either high or low. In my experience, something in the range of 4-8-6 is best for tomato growth, caveat that this is for soil at PH 5.5 to 6.5. For soil in the 6.0 to 7.0 range, Feldon's suggestion of 4-7-10 is very good.

What in my experience gives the highest possible production of good flavored tomatoes? Well, years ago, I had access to all the rabbit manure I could shovel so I brought it in by the cubic yard and applied to my garden. I put a layer 4 inches deep in a 10' by 10' flower bed and planted 3 Marianna's Peace tomato plants. By the time they were frozen out, those 3 plants had produced from 50 to 150 tomatoes each. I collected seed and distributed them far and wide because at that time Tomatofest was selling a package of 6 seed for $24. If you want to see world record breaking tomato production, get some rabbit manure!

And read these links for a bit more information on soil fertility!

http://www.selectedplants.com/Fertilizing.htm

http://www.selectedplants.com/OrthoPhosphate.htm

amideutch · August 18, 2015

Quote:

P is a sluff off. He never moves. In fact, he can get so bound up in some soils that he is unavailable no matter how hungry your plants get.

This is one of the reasons for inoculating seedlings on plant out with Mycorrhizae and Beneficial Bacteria. They make nutrients available that would otherwise not be available to the plant especially P (Phosphorus). This is also applicable to container growers as well.

Quote:

So where does this leave the container gardener? Well, he has a greater challenge because his soil volume is limited and the plant must extract everything needed from what is available.

For me growing in containers gives me more control over the growth of the plant although it is more labor intensive. I choose the aggregate for it to grow in, which helps alleviate soil born disease and also able to choose the PH of the medium.

It is easier to manipulate the nutrient levels required by the plant during different growth phases. It has better air exchange in the rootzone and rootzone temperature can be maintained closer to optimum levels. In fact the plants I grew in 26 quart styrofoam ice chests performed better than any other container I used.

Ami

Gerardo · August 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

It is easier to manipulate the nutrient levels required by the plant during different growth phases. It has better air exchange in the rootzone and rootzone temperature can be maintained closer to optimum levels. In fact the plants I grew in 26 quart styrofoam ice chests performed better than any other container I used.

Ami

Sounds as if the plants in the ice chests really enjoyed the steady temperature.

I've found it's good to have single ingredient fertilizers so you can tailor their food rations based on what the plants are telling you.

And endo/ecto/trichoderm, et al, really help the container gardener. Worm Teas also steer things in the right direction.

I understand Bill's balancing act of split fruit/future fruit set/hydration all too well.

Gardeneer · August 18, 2015

Soil tests are good as far as pH is concerned. Because N an K are pretty mobile, it won't be reliable for a very long time..
Most soil test that I have read on messages boards indicated more than necessary amount of P.
Now how can you change that one ???!!

On the pH, most soils in the Eastern US (GA where I have gardened) and here in PNW (now where I am) it is on the acid side (<<= 6.5 ). So I don't needs a soil test. I can do it with a litmus paper for a ball park figure. So you have to know what kind of native soil you have.

Also , I am not sure how the soil tests work. For example take Calcium. Not all forms of calcium are in a form that plants can use in short term.

Learn to Read Your Plants' Lips: Yeah , they talk to you in various languages. hehe
Amend : Add various kinds of organic matter, manures, compost every season. That should pretty much do the trick. All you will need then is occasional light supplement of some kind of all purpose plant food.

Gardeneer.

bower · August 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

There are times I would love to have a "chastize" button to whack everyone for posting seriously bad advice about things like fertilizer.

First and foremost, find out what the soil you are growing in has for available nutrients. Get a soil test! Then use the soil test to figure out what your plants actually need to blossom and produce fruit.

Some basics about soil: N is highly mobile and easily leached out of soil. If you apply N and a couple of decent rains come for a visit, your N will be gone. K is nearly as bad, it is usually fairly mobile in soil though not usually as much as N. K will wash down in the soil out of range of the plants root system. It is still there, just harder to get. P is a sluff off. He never moves. In fact, he can get so bound up in some soils that he is unavailable no matter how hungry your plants get.

So where does this leave the container gardener? Well, he has a greater challenge because his soil volume is limited and the plant must extract everything needed from what is available.

What about PH? Soil PH is critical in making nutrients available to your plants. If you have not checked the PH, you are missing the biggest opportunity to improve your plants root system and production potential.

So who's suggestion is closest to a good general purpose fertilizer for tomatoes? Well, Miracle Grow did the research and produces 18-18-21 specifically for tomatoes. This is a general purpose formula that works in most soils, but will cause serious problems if PH is either high or low. In my experience, something in the range of 4-8-6 is best for tomato growth, caveat that this is for soil at PH 5.5 to 6.5. For soil in the 6.0 to 7.0 range, Feldon's suggestion of 4-7-10 is very good.

What in my experience gives the highest possible production of good flavored tomatoes? Well, years ago, I had access to all the rabbit manure I could shovel so I brought it in by the cubic yard and applied to my garden. I put a layer 4 inches deep in a 10' by 10' flower bed and planted 3 Marianna's Peace tomato plants. By the time they were frozen out, those 3 plants had produced from 50 to 150 tomatoes each. I collected seed and distributed them far and wide because at that time Tomatofest was selling a package of 6 seed for $24. If you want to see world record breaking tomato production, get some rabbit manure!

And read these links for a bit more information on soil fertility!

http://www.selectedplants.com/Fertilizing.htm

http://www.selectedplants.com/OrthoPhosphate.htm

Fusion I just love that link about Miss Phosphate and Mr. Root Hair... it is awesome.

Thanks for posting it again... I had forgotten, that phosphate avalability is all about the pH. The story explains it so well. Gotta print me a hard copy and tack on the wall.

b54red · August 18, 2015

Fusion is right about the ph in the soil causing some problems when using the Miracle Grow fertilizer he mentioned. Before I started using Texas Tomato Food I had generally had the best results feeding my plants the Miracle Grow fertilizer 18-18-24. The problem was that it had too much P and with my soil ph running a good bit too high I ended up with far too much P in my soil according to soil tests. The fact that I had used a lot of cow manure as a soil amendment over the years only added to the problem. I have worked hard the past few years at lowering my ph and the result is a leveling off of the extremely high levels of P in my soil and healthier plants. It is really amazing how fast P builds up in high ph soil and yet I can't keep enough N or K in my soil so I am constantly adding more just to maintain healthy levels. I think that the fact that I use raised beds adds to the leaching of N and K because in the small section that isn't raised beds the levels tend to leach out slower.

Bill

bower · August 18, 2015

Here is a good link about potassium availability.
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/supp...ium_basics.htm

AKmark · August 18, 2015

I did a huge miracle grow experiment this year, I am glad I won't ever do that again.

amideutch · August 19, 2015

Here is a good read on Phoshorus and Mycorrhizae I came across on the web.

http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/...ertilizer.html

Ami

Gardeneer · August 19, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Here is a good read on Phoshorus and Mycorrhizae I came across on the web.

http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/...ertilizer.html

Ami

Interesting article.
That is why I have always been skeptical of soil tests. Almost all such tests indicate ample supply of Phosphorus. But NEVER tell us if it is in a form that plants (tomatoes in our case) can uptake it. So then you get something like BLOOM BOOSTER, voila , your plants flower more.
According to the article P in negative ion form has a short life and finds a positive ion and the becomes a solid, not available to the plants.
Then there comes the micro herds that might help to convert some of that into a useable form.

Now my question is : How to farm mycorrhizae ?

Gardeneer

Lindalana · August 20, 2015

Ami, love the article, pretty much how I have learned as well.
Now my soil from last year had more than enough Ph but avail level was much lower. Those microbes I think is of main importance to me. I have applied soft rock phosphate to my last year compost pile.
Am looking forward what this year numbers will be.

August 19, 2015	#28
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Here is a good read on Phoshorus and Mycorrhizae I came across on the web. http://www.the-compost-gardener.com/...ertilizer.html Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

August 12, 2015	#16
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Despite nearly two months with days near 100 and very high humidity my plants are still setting fruit. I use TTF every week to ten days. It keeps the plants healthy and setting despite more than unfavorable conditions. It should be cooling down a bit soon with the nights getting into the low 70s and maybe even lower and days in the low 90s and that should really boost fruit set. At least on the ones the spider mites didn't kill. Some of my newer plants that were set out in May and mid June are setting really good while others are only setting moderately. I think variety makes a huge difference in the heat of summer. Varieties like Indian Stripe, Spudakee and Pruden's Purple are setting heavier than most other varieties right now but even the shy producers like Donskoi and Brandywines are setting some fruit. The biggest problem I have besides dealing with spider mites is getting out and pruning and tying up plants in this oppressive heat. Bill

August 17, 2015	#19
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Other than a couple of volunteers that came up in my pepper bed and then died quickly due to fusarium all of my plants have been grafted plants the past two years. I don't believe that has anything to do with them setting in the high heat though because I got the same results in the past with a few heirlooms that avoided getting fusarium or nematodes by using the same techniques to encourage fruit set in the heat. There are so many things that can hinder fruit set when it is really hot; but the one thing that will guarantee very little fruit set in high heat conditions is lack of adequate moisture. I have noticed over the years that just one day of inadequate moisture can affect most of the blooms on a plant negatively. While plants are small it is really easy to keep the moisture levels high for good fruit set in the heat but once the plant is mature and loaded with ripening fruit it is very difficult to do without affecting the existing fruit negatively. I try to maintain a balance so I get some fruit set and some cracking from watering in order to maintain some production for the future. I frequently mess up by delaying watering too long in order not to cause too much fruit cracking and cause excessive blossom drop and other times I over water and ruin some of my nearly ripe fruit but at the same time usually get more fruit set. Maintaining good fruit production in high heat is a balancing act and it takes practice to get it right more often than wrong. Bill

August 17, 2015	#20
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	There are times I would love to have a "chastize" button to whack everyone for posting seriously bad advice about things like fertilizer. First and foremost, find out what the soil you are growing in has for available nutrients. Get a soil test! Then use the soil test to figure out what your plants actually need to blossom and produce fruit. Some basics about soil: N is highly mobile and easily leached out of soil. If you apply N and a couple of decent rains come for a visit, your N will be gone. K is nearly as bad, it is usually fairly mobile in soil though not usually as much as N. K will wash down in the soil out of range of the plants root system. It is still there, just harder to get. P is a sluff off. He never moves. In fact, he can get so bound up in some soils that he is unavailable no matter how hungry your plants get. So where does this leave the container gardener? Well, he has a greater challenge because his soil volume is limited and the plant must extract everything needed from what is available. What about PH? Soil PH is critical in making nutrients available to your plants. If you have not checked the PH, you are missing the biggest opportunity to improve your plants root system and production potential. So who's suggestion is closest to a good general purpose fertilizer for tomatoes? Well, Miracle Grow did the research and produces 18-18-21 specifically for tomatoes. This is a general purpose formula that works in most soils, but will cause serious problems if PH is either high or low. In my experience, something in the range of 4-8-6 is best for tomato growth, caveat that this is for soil at PH 5.5 to 6.5. For soil in the 6.0 to 7.0 range, Feldon's suggestion of 4-7-10 is very good. What in my experience gives the highest possible production of good flavored tomatoes? Well, years ago, I had access to all the rabbit manure I could shovel so I brought it in by the cubic yard and applied to my garden. I put a layer 4 inches deep in a 10' by 10' flower bed and planted 3 Marianna's Peace tomato plants. By the time they were frozen out, those 3 plants had produced from 50 to 150 tomatoes each. I collected seed and distributed them far and wide because at that time Tomatofest was selling a package of 6 seed for $24. If you want to see world record breaking tomato production, get some rabbit manure! And read these links for a bit more information on soil fertility! http://www.selectedplants.com/Fertilizing.htm http://www.selectedplants.com/OrthoPhosphate.htm

August 18, 2015	#23
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,916	Soil tests are good as far as pH is concerned. Because N an K are pretty mobile, it won't be reliable for a very long time.. Most soil test that I have read on messages boards indicated more than necessary amount of P. Now how can you change that one ???!! On the pH, most soils in the Eastern US (GA where I have gardened) and here in PNW (now where I am) it is on the acid side (<<= 6.5 ). So I don't needs a soil test. I can do it with a litmus paper for a ball park figure. So you have to know what kind of native soil you have. Also , I am not sure how the soil tests work. For example take Calcium. Not all forms of calcium are in a form that plants can use in short term. Learn to Read Your Plants' Lips: Yeah , they talk to you in various languages. hehe Amend : Add various kinds of organic matter, manures, compost every season. That should pretty much do the trick. All you will need then is occasional light supplement of some kind of all purpose plant food. Gardeneer.

August 18, 2015	#26
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,794	Here is a good link about potassium availability. http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/supp...ium_basics.htm

August 18, 2015	#27
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	I did a huge miracle grow experiment this year, I am glad I won't ever do that again.

August 20, 2015	#30
Lindalana Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 857	Ami, love the article, pretty much how I have learned as well. Now my soil from last year had more than enough Ph but avail level was much lower. Those microbes I think is of main importance to me. I have applied soft rock phosphate to my last year compost pile. Am looking forward what this year numbers will be.