Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.
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#16 | |||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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You don't know all the "de colgar" varieties, nobody does. Their diversity is overwhelming with many many hundreds of varieties. Quote:
I've heard a lot of stories telling that a certain variety will only taste well in a certain place. Obviously conditions affect flavour, but the only way to compare things properly is under the same conditions. Good varieties, when grown under good conditions, tend to be good tasting, and better tasting than bad varieties. I'm not so sure that a special adaptation will prevent great flavour when grown in places were tomatoes in general develop great flavour. |
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#17 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 219
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This the first I've heard of any type of tomato that can be saved and used fresh over winter. I'm intrigued... off to look for some seeds.
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#18 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Florence, italy
Posts: 17
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I beg to differ. "to dry" was not the best word i could choose. We have many dry tomatoes and it is a different thing. Maybe seasoned..not sure, but the point is they are used a few months after harvesting them. In one of the videos i embedded, the guy is cooking spaghetti with Piennolo, when he cuts them you will see that inside they are not dry at all. I've lived in Spain 2 years, 1 in Sevilla. While in marbella i' ve seen many women utilizing tomatoes de colgar in a similar fashion to the Piennolo, when they had already been harvested for a while. They were consumed fresh as well, but trust me...not only. If you speak Spanish, this is a video that will clarify this for you. And she says that they consume them in winter as they last long time... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXqXtivaTOw No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available. The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me. |
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#19 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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(No, i haven't tried all varieties of the colgar, but certainly the most common ones, those that are readily available.
The only way to know if Piennolo works good in your climate is to get some real Piennolo seeds (if it is something you care about obviously), as the ones you said you tried, sound a bit bogus to me.) Allow me to tell you something about Ilex, since I know him well. He is one of the major sources of many varieties from Spain, just one other in Spain, from Mallorca, also sources new Spanish ones. And yes,I have been to both Portugal and Spain myself,and of course Seville and Madrid and so many more places and also Morocco on the 3 week trip. Due to EU regulations in Spain, not all countries have the same EU regs, he cannot sell seeds in Spain, so he joined SSE in the US as a listed member and can sell them from there and at last look was listing, let me check, 133 varieties of tomatoes, along with peppers and squash and eggplant. He recently listed what he was growing this summer and I didn't know any of them. I deal with him directly in Spain,he knows what I prefer and then sends the new ones , about 22,should arrive any day now,then they get listed in a spreadsheet and my now 7 seed producers make their selections, and his request price is very low and also includes shipping. I am amazed at the biological diversity of ones grown in Spain, but it makes sense when one considers that after the Spanish overcame the Aztecs, they bought back seeds from S America and at that time Portugal and Spain were one country. So nothing bogus about Ilex at all as you wrote above, whether his many de colgar ones or beefsteaks, or hearts, or striped ones or whatever.. Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#20 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: virginia
Posts: 743
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I think he said the seeds may have been bogus, not the man, at least that's how I read it
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#21 | |||
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 416
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Here, drying tomatoes are not rare, I only have 1 drying tomato variety in my collection, and it comes from the mountains far from the sea. Nobody even tries to dry tomatoes here, it's a waste of time. You can't store dry tomatoes here fall to spring, at least not without plastic. The solution was "de colgar" tomatoes. It was the only way to store tomatoes for winter. It was the perfect tomato for subsistence farms. Cheap, easy, productive ... providing fresh tomatoes all year long. They can be used in many ways, and there are different varieties for different uses. Some are intended for salads, for cooking, for salsa ... and the most important use ... for bread rubbing. It's true that they change in storage, and taste and aroma change in storage. Aroma specially can increase in storage. Most varieties are better for bread rubbing after some time in storage, as softer flesh works better. Some varieties are soft from day one, but for other uses, you don't need to wait. Other varieties never get soft, while others are fantastic in salads for over 4 months. Quote:
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I have a seed bank devoted to these tomatoes, starting, but already over 100 varieties, so I've tried a few. There are not many readily available in the markets, and probably over half of what is sold around are fake hybrids. I would be surprised if you really have a good perspective from Sevilla and Marbella. We are talking at probably around 1000 surviving varieties. I believe they are the most diverse tomato group in the world. Basically they only share their long storage capabilities, and usually are on the small size with hard skin. Every other trait can and does change among varieties. |
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#22 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 59
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Enzymatic activity in all fruit will continue after harvesting, and this can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on the fruit in question. Banana's, for example, will gradually develop a more intense flavor as they continue to ripen.
In the case of tomatoes, most varieties will spoil long before any enhancing of flavor can be gained ... with the exception of longkeeper varieties. Longkeepers, whether they be Spanish, Italian, or American will last much longer after harvesting, allowing the flavors to gradually develop and enhance over time as various enzymes continue to remain active within the fruit. I believe that this was what Malabar Circle was trying to get at. And I am also sure that there are lots of different uses they can be put to. Some longkeepers will be better for cooking with, and some will be better for drying, and some will be better for flavoring bread (really great idea by the way Ilex) in the dead of winter ... and everyone will have his or her own favorites. That's what makes tomatoes so wonderful. All the different varieties out there, and all the different ways that people find to use a simple member of the nightshade family. After all, how boring would it be if there really was the proverbial "perfect tomato" and everyone agreed there was no equal? Then what would we talk about? |
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#23 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#24 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Florence, italy
Posts: 17
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You have made a mistake. |
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#25 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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I'm glad you have respect for me,I appreciate that. Yes,I know that you were referring to the seeds that Ilex was growing but you posted (Bogus was evidently referred to a quality of seeds that by his own admission do not reflect that of a real Piennolo. You have made a mistake.) It was you who referred to what Ilex was growing as bogus that did not reflect Piennolo, not Ilex. If anyone told me I was growing bogus seeds I would take exception to that and very strongly. No,I have not made a mistake as I just tried to clarify for you. Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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#26 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,893
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I notice that Tania says these are PL whereas they are supposed to be RL to be correct.
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Piennolo_del_Vesuvio Even if they are incorrect, I understand that they are very tasty, even when fresh ![]() Linda |
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#27 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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@Malabar Circle:
Can you elaborate on the meaning of "Spongillo". In your very first post you add that in parentheses and go on to say something about it as an alternative name for the variety. But what does this mean and what does it refer to; maybe something having to do with the soil? Then again there seems to be a little discrepancy popping up. Mentioned above by Labradors2, it seems that your Pomodorino del Piennolo have a regular leaf while Tania's Tomatobase says clearly that they are expected to have a potato leaf. Is it possible that there is more than one variety or that even after many (human) generations of selection, there could still be a considerable amount of variation. Where did you get your seeds? |
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#28 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 59
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I think it would be an interesting experiment for someone to grow the PL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio side by side with the RL version of Piennolo Del Vesuvio that Malabar Circle is growing.
... so many projects ... so little garden space ... |
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#29 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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It's nothing more than the little protrusion at the bottom of the fruit.
Molti sono i nomi popolari attribuiti al prodotto e, spesso, variano di città in città: è un esempio il termine “pomodoro di spongillo”, per la puntina nella parte inferiore del pomodoro (sponda), che, in altri comuni diventa “spuncillo”. |
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#30 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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I would like to see a little clarification of what is meant, in relation to a tomato,
by the terms "long keeping" (ilex, #21), "long storage capabilities" (ilex, #21), "longkeeper varieties" (Locomatto, #22). I'm assuming to start with that this is not the same as some recently bred hybrids created just to cater to the "retail long chain" (I know I have that incorrect but I hope it's illustrative enough as I can't think right now of the actual words). In other words, the post-harvest period that includes sorting, packing, shipping, shelving, sale and finally consumption. At least one of these has been promoted by an otherwise favorite seed producer as being capable of shipment from Almeria to Moscow and return and arriving back home in the same condition as when it left. It seems to me that this is not at all the same objective as one would seek when engaging in the Piennolo process.I'm trying to understand a bit about how that process works and what actually happens to the fruit when it is undertaken. Also, what characteristics most contribute to its success. On the contrary, I'm sure that some of these new hybrids are explicitly bred so that they cannot ripen. They can get plenty red though. Again, it seems that this is not a quality that the Pomodorino del Piennolo shares. Would someone knowledgeable kindly comment on that? |
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