How easy is it to get a bee cross?

[Salsacharley]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Charley, when you say to increase pollination between plants, I assume different varieties,does that mean you actually want to increase cross pollination? That's the way I read it.

Carolyn

I don't necessarily want cross pollination. I assume that if cross pollination does occur it would be reflected in the immediate fruit when it ripens. I intend to save seeds and use them for trade and future growing. If I can see that cross pollination has obviously occurred I could forego using those seeds for anything but personal use.

I have 18 different varieties growing in a 12 ft x 4 ft bed, with only 2 stems each, but they are getting snugger and snugger as they go vertical. So if cross pollination has occurred either by bees or by the toothbrush I could get some interesting but not necessarily desired results. I am fascinated by the whole process so I'm not adamant either way about cross pollination. I just want to have certainty as to whether or not I have a cross pollination fruit, and certainty that it is limited to that particular fruit.

I also have some Russian Sage plants growing about 50 ft from my tomatoes and those sage plants are constantly swarmed by bees, but I haven't seen a single bee in my tomatoe patch.

Thanks for asking.

Charley

[Salsacharley]

Originally Posted by dice

It could if you were growing a lot of plants with
"exerted stigmas", like Joseph. This picture of a flower on
Gillogly Pink from TOMATObase shows what an exerted
stigma looks like:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag...nk_Flower2.jpg

Wind could pick up pollen vibrated out of a flower and carry
it to other flowers on nearby plants of other varieties.

There are plenty of exterted stigma types among heirlooms, and
some author named Gopalakrishnan in a 2007 book said that hot
weather increases the tendency for tomato flowers to have
exterted stigmas.

Most growers have few plants like that, though. This
Beauty King flower does not look so much exerted stigma
as simply bee-chewed, where a bee grabbed ahold of
the end of the anther cone and then did his vibrating thing
to shake out the pollen:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag...ng_Flower_.JPG

These Break O' Day flowers are the kind that I see the most:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag...ay_Flower2.jpg
They are not likely to cross-pollenate, unless a bee with a belly
covered with pollen from something else opens up the end of
the anther cone before the flower has self-pollenated and gets
pollen from another cultivar all over the pistil.

Figure that any flowers that bees have opened up are probably
already pollenated, so pollen wind drift from your vibrating
device will not affect those. Once a flower has some color
besides green, there is a good chance that it already
self-pollenated.

Thanks Dice,

I've got flowers that look like all 3 of the pictures you present. It is also getting very hot here, and we've had plenty of wind, too. I've got no tomatoes ripened yet, but I've got a bunch of different varieties with fruit set, so I am most anxious to see what comes of all this. I am hopeful that the heat doesn't shut down the whole show.

Charley

[carolyn137]

I don't necessarily want cross pollination. I assume that if cross pollination does occur it would be reflected in the immediate fruit when it ripens. I intend to save seeds and use them for trade and future growing. If I can see that cross pollination has obviously occurred I could forego using those seeds for anything but personal use.

&&&&&

No, you don't see X pollination as reflected in the fruits in the same season.

You only see it if you save seeds from fruits that have been cross pollinated, called the F2 seeds, when you sow them the next year.

Carolyn

[Salsacharley]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I don't necessarily want cross pollination. I assume that if cross pollination does occur it would be reflected in the immediate fruit when it ripens. I intend to save seeds and use them for trade and future growing. If I can see that cross pollination has obviously occurred I could forego using those seeds for anything but personal use.

&&&&&

No, you don't see X pollination as reflected in the fruits in the same season.

You only see it if you save seeds from fruits that have been cross pollinated, called the F2 seeds, when you sow them the next year.

Carolyn

Thanks for straightening me out on that Carolyn. Since I have no evidence of any X pollination at this point, do you think seeds from my plants as described would be acceptable in a seed exchange program or do you think there is too much risk of X pollination in my situation to promote my seeds as true to type.?

Charley

[dice]

I think you can trade them, because the average crossing rate
is usually pretty low, less than 5%. It would be considerate to
note that flowers were not bagged (protecting them from bees
and other pollinator insects) when discussing trades, so that
potential trading partners will know that chance crosses are
possible.

Experienced seed traders pretty much expect that anyway.
Getting a plant from crossed seed is a routine event and
simply a risk of trading seeds. (It is a risk of buying seeds,
too, and some of the best finds come from chance crosses.)

If you have the space and discipline to grow out, say, 4 plants
of a variety that you traded for, you have a good chance of
getting more of the uncrossed original variety than of any
chance crosses.