I think I'm going no-till - Page 2

Cole_Robbie · April 18, 2015

I was wondering about cover crops. I think I would be better off just leaving my black plastic on all winter than trying to take it off and grow a cover crop.

Redbaron · April 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I was wondering about cover crops. I think I would be better off just leaving my black plastic on all winter than trying to take it off and grow a cover crop.

I planted rye and peas last fall on 6 rows. It's about knee tall right now. I'll let you know how it goes. Kinda hoping I can harvest some snap peas before I need to mow it down to make room for tomatoes and peppers. They are blooming right now.

cjp1953 · April 18, 2015

Everyone one's different,you can plant into the cover crop without turning it.But with rye you need to cut it back of kill it off.It can grow very fast with warmer weather.I like the fact that it is a green manure and vetch adds nitrogen to my soil.

Cole_Robbie · April 23, 2015

I hauled six truck loads of dirt over the past two days. My last four rows are ready for plastic: http://i.imgur.com/8nZGD6b.jpg

All of it was shoveled by hand. I caught every worm I could. There were a lot.

Gardadore · April 23, 2015

Over 50 years ago I came across a marvelous book by Ruth Stout called "The No Work Garden". It was a very readable book with a good, literally down to earth common sense method of growing things. As a teenager I was very impressed and have never forgotten her admonition that if you till the soil you will upset, if not destroy, the balance of all the living microbes below. Consequently I try to dig as little as possible. For the last 8 years I have grown tomatoes in straw or hay bales and used the decomposed material after the season in my beds. My garden soil has never been better and is easy to work with my hands.
You can get good general info about her method and a list of her works at http://www.goveganic.net/article182.html

For you mystery fans she was the sister of Rex Stout, who wrote the Nero Wolfe novels!

When I read the Lasagna Gardening Book, I immediately thought of Ruth Stout. Sometimes the old methods are still the best methods. Nothing wrong with tweaking the system to meet modern needs but the principles don't change! So Cole Robbie, I believe you are on the right track and will love your "no till" method and its results. Do see if you can pick up one of her books somewhere. Amazon.com offers several of them. They really are a good read since both brother and sister possessed a lot of wit! Good luck in your endeavor and do keep us posted concerning your results!

AKmark · April 23, 2015

Cole, you should have Popeye arms and the GI Joe with the kungfu grip, after shoveling that much dirt. And a backache

AlittleSalt · April 23, 2015

Cole, I agree. I've looked at this thread countless times.

Lol AKmark, I'm sure Cole has large forearm muscles. Long handled shovels make things so much easier. All that shoveling builds triceps too.

Cole_Robbie · April 24, 2015

lol, do u guys have facebook friends who do P90x and are always posting about it? I do. I like to call my manure hauling workout Poop90x.

Mike723 · April 24, 2015

Last year was my first year with no-till in the "old garden" and I'll tell you the soil this year is absolutely gorgeous.. Nice rich coffee color, light, fluffy and teaming with life - I mulched with approximately 2-4" of grass clippings and shredded leaves last year. I'll do the same with that plot this year.. No tomatoes though as to avoid another year of septoria..

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjp1953

I'm not using a tiller but today I turned my winter crop of vetch and rye under with a shovel.In 4 weeks I'll use my garden fork to work my cotton seed meal and garden tone in.Not really no till,but I don't lose many worms with a shovel as I would with a tiller.I kept a layer of straw 8" deep as a mulch cover in the garden last year and will repeat again this year.

I planted Hairy Vetch last fall in my new hoop house rows .. I'm tossing around my kill method and was thinking of just chopping it with some lawn shears (during flowering stage of course) and very gently working it in. I only have 3 rows approximately 3' x 30' so it isn't much in terms of labor either way... Have you had good results with just turning it over?

Misfit · April 24, 2015

Looking good, keep us updated!

I started a new plot last year, going no till. Cardboard, compost, and shredded leaves on top of the grass. It produced pretty good, even though the soil was rock hard and had no worms in it.

I planted out some of my tomatoes the other day. The soil was noticeably much easier to dig out (tomato holes). The best part, each hole had 2-4 worms in it. I'm happy I gave it a try.

-Jimmy

Cole_Robbie · May 5, 2015

I may have overdone it a little on transporting too many pill bugs. One plant site out of my 77 in the high tunnel keeps getting eaten. It's on plant #3 at the moment. Several of my other plants have chewed-on stems.

But overall, everything looks great. The high tunnel plants are taking off and have begun to flower. When I pull weeds from around the edges of the black plastic, ants and pill bugs erupt out of the ground. I know I have a lot of earthworms and grub worms as well. My beds are a colony of life.

By contrast, I also planted some tilled ground in a couple rows a family member let me use in their garden. I never saw a single worm, or really any living thing in the soil at all. I don't expect the tomatoes there to taste very good; I just want them for seed.

I had a few outdoor plants eaten by a rabbit. When I replanted those sites, I eventually stopped carrying my little hand shovel that I usually plant with. I don't need it, because my hand easily slides a foot deep into the soil to set a new plant.

I'm convinced that these will be the best-tasting tomatoes that I have ever grown.

Redbaron · May 5, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I may have overdone it a little on transporting too many pill bugs. One plant site out of my 77 in the high tunnel keeps getting eaten. It's on plant #3 at the moment. Several of my other plants have chewed-on stems.

But overall, everything looks great. The high tunnel plants are taking off and have begun to flower. When I pull weeds from around the edges of the black plastic, ants and pill bugs erupt out of the ground. I know I have a lot of earthworms and grub worms as well. My beds are a colony of life.

By contrast, I also planted some tilled ground in a couple rows a family member let me use in their garden. I never saw a single worm, or really any living thing in the soil at all. I don't expect the tomatoes there to taste very good; I just want them for seed.

I had a few outdoor plants eaten by a rabbit. When I replanted those sites, I eventually stopped carrying my little hand shovel that I usually plant with. I don't need it, because my hand easily slides a foot deep into the soil to set a new plant.

I'm convinced that these will be the best-tasting tomatoes that I have ever grown.

Congratulations! Wish you the best Robbie.

I found that to be the case myself.

Once you go no till you never go back!

But that doesn't mean there are no nuances here and there. Like you said there is a whole teaming colony of life. Not all that life is beneficial, but most is. You still get some pest damages, but seldom a whole crop. I also lose a few plants here and there. The ones that make it though, WOW.

And the soil simply is incredible. No wonder there is no need to till. With all that teaming life, the soil for sure gets plenty churned up by worms and such.

Cole_Robbie · May 23, 2015

Here's a funny addendum to this story. I just figured out that my EZ-Flo injector is not working at all. I found a TDS meter and tested the water coming out of the drip tape. It is exactly the same as tap water. I can see bubbles in the output line of the EZ Flo. They don't flow; they just sit there. And the solution in my tank isn't changing color at all, like it should as it gets diluted.

so I am organic(ish)....by complete accident.

All my plants look great. I am growing mostly compact determinates, and they are already chest-high. I have small tomatoes on them now, and look to have ripe ones in about three weeks.

Redbaron · May 23, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Here's a funny addendum to this story. I just figured out that my EZ-Flo injector is not working at all. I found a TDS meter and tested the water coming out of the drip tape. It is exactly the same as tap water. I can see bubbles in the output line of the EZ Flo. They don't flow; they just sit there. And the solution in my tank isn't changing color at all, like it should as it gets diluted.

so I am organic(ish)....by complete accident.

All my plants look great. I am growing mostly compact determinates, and they are already chest-high. I have small tomatoes on them now, and look to have ripe ones in about three weeks.

It's a sign!

Cole_Robbie · May 23, 2015

On an unrelated thread, worth posted a picture of a meat injector, which is a giant syringe. If I can find one with a long enough needle, or make an attachment to make it longer, I don't see why I couldn't go around with a bucket of organic ferts and inject the raised beds that way. Then I could use goopy organic products that would have clogged up my drip tape.

April 18, 2015	#16
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I was wondering about cover crops. I think I would be better off just leaving my black plastic on all winter than trying to take it off and grow a cover crop.

April 18, 2015	#18
cjp1953 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cuyahoga Falls,Ohio Posts: 818	Everyone one's different,you can plant into the cover crop without turning it.But with rye you need to cut it back of kill it off.It can grow very fast with warmer weather.I like the fact that it is a green manure and vetch adds nitrogen to my soil.

April 23, 2015	#19
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I hauled six truck loads of dirt over the past two days. My last four rows are ready for plastic: http://i.imgur.com/8nZGD6b.jpg All of it was shoveled by hand. I caught every worm I could. There were a lot.

April 23, 2015	#20
Gardadore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Saylorsburg, PA Posts: 261	Over 50 years ago I came across a marvelous book by Ruth Stout called "The No Work Garden". It was a very readable book with a good, literally down to earth common sense method of growing things. As a teenager I was very impressed and have never forgotten her admonition that if you till the soil you will upset, if not destroy, the balance of all the living microbes below. Consequently I try to dig as little as possible. For the last 8 years I have grown tomatoes in straw or hay bales and used the decomposed material after the season in my beds. My garden soil has never been better and is easy to work with my hands. You can get good general info about her method and a list of her works at http://www.goveganic.net/article182.html For you mystery fans she was the sister of Rex Stout, who wrote the Nero Wolfe novels! When I read the Lasagna Gardening Book, I immediately thought of Ruth Stout. Sometimes the old methods are still the best methods. Nothing wrong with tweaking the system to meet modern needs but the principles don't change! So Cole Robbie, I believe you are on the right track and will love your "no till" method and its results. Do see if you can pick up one of her books somewhere. Amazon.com offers several of them. They really are a good read since both brother and sister possessed a lot of wit! Good luck in your endeavor and do keep us posted concerning your results!

April 23, 2015	#21
AKmark Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Wasilla Alaska Posts: 2,010	Cole, you should have Popeye arms and the GI Joe with the kungfu grip, after shoveling that much dirt. And a backache

April 23, 2015	#22
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Cole, I agree. I've looked at this thread countless times. Lol AKmark, I'm sure Cole has large forearm muscles. Long handled shovels make things so much easier. All that shoveling builds triceps too.

April 24, 2015	#23
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	lol, do u guys have facebook friends who do P90x and are always posting about it? I do. I like to call my manure hauling workout Poop90x.

April 24, 2015	#25
Misfit Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Baltimore Posts: 165	Looking good, keep us updated! I started a new plot last year, going no till. Cardboard, compost, and shredded leaves on top of the grass. It produced pretty good, even though the soil was rock hard and had no worms in it. I planted out some of my tomatoes the other day. The soil was noticeably much easier to dig out (tomato holes). The best part, each hole had 2-4 worms in it. I'm happy I gave it a try. -Jimmy

May 5, 2015	#26
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I may have overdone it a little on transporting too many pill bugs. One plant site out of my 77 in the high tunnel keeps getting eaten. It's on plant #3 at the moment. Several of my other plants have chewed-on stems. But overall, everything looks great. The high tunnel plants are taking off and have begun to flower. When I pull weeds from around the edges of the black plastic, ants and pill bugs erupt out of the ground. I know I have a lot of earthworms and grub worms as well. My beds are a colony of life. By contrast, I also planted some tilled ground in a couple rows a family member let me use in their garden. I never saw a single worm, or really any living thing in the soil at all. I don't expect the tomatoes there to taste very good; I just want them for seed. I had a few outdoor plants eaten by a rabbit. When I replanted those sites, I eventually stopped carrying my little hand shovel that I usually plant with. I don't need it, because my hand easily slides a foot deep into the soil to set a new plant. I'm convinced that these will be the best-tasting tomatoes that I have ever grown.

May 23, 2015	#28
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	Here's a funny addendum to this story. I just figured out that my EZ-Flo injector is not working at all. I found a TDS meter and tested the water coming out of the drip tape. It is exactly the same as tap water. I can see bubbles in the output line of the EZ Flo. They don't flow; they just sit there. And the solution in my tank isn't changing color at all, like it should as it gets diluted. so I am organic(ish)....by complete accident. All my plants look great. I am growing mostly compact determinates, and they are already chest-high. I have small tomatoes on them now, and look to have ripe ones in about three weeks.