Recommendation for french fry potato?

[Tom Wagner]

Patently false? I beg to differ.....

I would rather trust Idaho, Oregon, and Virginia studies on seed piece size as to yield and tuber size.

I know these guys in Idaho...

http://www.cals.uidaho.edu/edcomm/pdf/CIS/CIS1031.pdf

Seed piece size...spacing...and yield...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cX6ucJG.png?1[/IMG]

Physiological age of tubers
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Xm6zPMs.png?1[/IMG]

The following abstract by Ken Rykbost is one that I know about since I have been to the Klamath potato station and tallked with Mr. Rykbost and even spent an evening with him at his home. I seen the difference in the plots as to the size of seed piece and tuber size.

Abstract

Effect of seed piece size on performance of three potato varieties in the Klamath Basin of Oregon

• K. A. Rykbost

A survey of cut seed lots from Klamath Basin commercial potato operations showed poor uniformity of seed piece size and numerous undersize seed pieces in most of the 18 seed lots examined over two years. Experiments were conducted in 1995, 1996, and 1997 to evaluate effects of seed piece size on the performance of Russet Burbank, Russet Norkotah, and Century Russet cultivars. Weighed seed tubers were cut into four pieces to obtain seed piece sizes of 21, 35, 50, 64, and 78 g (+/-2 g). Seed pieces less than 50 g resulted in delayed emergence and reduced stem numbers in all varieties. Effects of seed piece size on yield and tuber size distribution were greatest for Century Russet and least for Russet Norkotah, but were significant for all varieties over the three-year study. Increasing seed piece size increased yield of U.S. No.1 and total yield, while reducing tuber size. An economic analysis, based on crop values for fresh market use and seed costs, found optimum seed piece sizes of 64 g for Russet Burbank and Century Russet and 50 g for Russet Norkotah.

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/2906/2906-1391/2906-1391.html

There could be some neat algorithms if one could do an overlay of
Response of physiologically young and old seed and tuber seed piece size and or whole planted tubers. Tie that with apical dominance and you would have a complicated but repeatable approach to potato production even in the home garden.

[Fusion_power]

Increasing seed piece size increased yield of U.S. No.1 and total yield, while reducing tuber size.

There is a huge climate influence as well. Here in the hot humid South East, the size seed piece determines when the sprout will emerge and when it will flower and when the potatoes will be ready to harvest. Just a small delay at any stage and the plants will run over into the heat and drought of summer with resulting decrease in production.

I planted Kennebec last year and deliberately picked the biggest seed potatoes in the bin at a local store. I cut them to get 2 eyes per seed piece and put the largest chunks on one end of the row and the smallest at the other end. The results were instructive. Larger seed pieces produced larger size and nearly double the pounds of potatoes compared to smaller pieces. The only interaction I saw that was counter was based on the number of plants from each seed piece. If more than 3 sprouts emerged, average size of the spuds was smaller but pounds of production was about the same.


DarJones

[TZ-OH6]

Is there a difference between cut and whole tubers of the same weight? For example saving egg-sized seed tubers vs. large ones to quarter cut. I would think that there would be more stored nutrients (proteins etc) in the whole tubers so you could go a little smaller. But then again, cutting might have some hormonal effects that encourage sprouting/growth.

[wmontanez]

Great info Tom and Dar Jones. I only had seen circumstantial evidence of the above but seeing a paper about it is great. Since it was brought up in a thread about french fries I think is still relevant to aim for big potatoes since for chipping is appropriate the large size.

[Masbustelo]

My question then is the following; Why cut the potatoes and not plant them whole? And if one wants large potatoes, why not plant the largest whole specimans available?

[Tom Wagner]

Is there a difference between cut and whole tubers of the same weight? For example saving egg-sized seed tubers vs. large ones to quarter cut. I would think that there would be more stored nutrients (proteins etc) in the whole tubers so you could go a little smaller. But then again, cutting might have some hormonal effects that encourage sprouting/growth.

In my area of where potatoes are commercially grown...two of the varieties that were produced for years have been the Yukon Gold and Cascade. The growers like to buy seed potatoes that are fairly large but not too large. The idea is to get as many 4-cuts as possible and the whole tubers may weigh in at 6 to 8 oz. The tubers received from the next county up...Whatcom county...are breaking dormancy but mostly apical....in other words...just the bud end is waking up. The tubers of Yukon Gold and Cascade have very few eyes and the goal is to get as few eyes per piece in order to get a dominant sprout that will produce few but larger tubers that can be spaced quite closely. The cutting of those tubers allows the other eyes to ''wake up" and grow unimpeded without every being broken off as the apical sprout would be.

I planted a row of my Skagit Valley Gold after digging them the same day. The tubers were sprouting at the apical end and I broke those off and planted the tubers whole. Many new sprouts will emerge from this whole tubers...maybe 15 or more sprouts. This is intentional since I want a high yield of rather small tubers. I like the whole potatoes over cut since there is less rot and the tubers provide nutrients clear into blooming time which is what I want.

BTW, I think the Amey Russet would be one of the best potatoes for French Fries. The USDA released it for that reason but the shape is not long enough for the professionals.....therefore it is a gardener's potato..not a grower's potato. The taste, texture is second to none. Oh, I take that back....a cross of it with Gold Pan created the Golden Amey. I had it in early certification for a while but the growers did not want a round russet with yellow flesh...no matter what the flavor was.

[wingnut]

Thanks for the great information Tom.

[Durgan]

Well boys and girls I assume you will all be saving the largest potato available as seed. This will raise hell with the automatic planting machines. The potato seed used in these machines has the appearance of small grey stones. In fact when I first viewed them in the most beautiful growing area in Canada, I thought they were stones.

I charge that in general it would be impossible to contribute any significant change in potato size and quantity directly attributable to the seed potato size. There are so many growing variables that regressive analysis is most difficult to apply. The researcher has got a paper out and certainly has given some food for bar room discussions, with no practical significance. And apparently he/she has a non reflective following, who will take every opportunity to propagate the"conclusion" and it will become an Internet concept. Similarly to UPSIDEDOWN TOMATO PLANTERS. I for one wont be planting two pound potato seeds, and see no future for TPS as a common planting source. To each his own.

[NathanP]

Very helpful information.

I charge that in general it would be impossible to contribute any significant change in potato size and quantity directly attributable to the seed potato size.

Obviously, someone who has studied the matter in great depth for several years and written a scientific paper disagrees with you.

There are so many growing variables that regressive analysis is most difficult to apply

And the person who wrote the referred to paper said as much. But he did find ideal approximate best tuber size to plant for maximum yield, though this size differed depending on potato type.

with no practical significance

I thought there was great 'practical significance'.

apparently he/she has a non reflective following, who will take every opportunity to propagate the"conclusion" and it will become an Internet concept

Much like those who deny every bit of evidence that there are potatoes that grow from stolons?

Similarly to UPSIDEDOWN TOMATO PLANTERS

Without getting into any reasoning, I fail to see this as anything more than another unjustified personal attempt to take a 'cheap shot' at a popular idea.

I for one wont be planting two pound potato seeds, and see no future for TPS as a common planting source. To each his own

Good for you. I'm glad you are open minded about such things. While the conclusion of the paper confirms that there are ideal tuber sizes to aim for if you are planting entire fields of uniform potatoes, this would seem to bear little application to those not doing mechanized planting or TPS. Other than stating there are idea tuber sizes to plant, he acknowledges that size is not uniform across different plants. In principle it has generally applicable use, and probably more use for those using mechanized planting and harvesting with the same clone than those who are not.

Regardless of that, I found the paper very interesting and helpful. TPS does admittedly create far more variability in potato type, size, yield and growing habit than any potato from clonal tissue, and that is far more likely to be a factor in keeping TPS planting from being commonly used. That is the negative side of the variability. You can flip that upside down and also say that the same variability has a positive in contributing much greater diversity to the gene pool.

Argument from ignorance or argumentum ad ignorantiam in its most formal definition is a logical fallacy that claims the truth of a premise is based on the fact that it has not been proven false, or that a premise is false because it has not been proven true. This is often phrased as "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

There is also a logical fallacy in the claims you have been pushing, regarding your assertions that there is no evidence for potatoes growing from stolons in certain plants/species. There is mountain of personal attributed evidence in affirmation of this. As far as I am aware, statements of witness are, amazingly, still considered evidence in such minor things as court cases.

To each his own

If you really mean this, perhaps you will act with a tad more humility with how you approach topics you are ignorant on, (such as potatoes growing from stolons) and couch your language with a little less offensiveness towards those who do know more than you on the subject matter.

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by Durgan

Well boys and girls I assume you will all be saving the largest potato available as seed. This will raise hell with the automatic planting machines. The potato seed used in these machines has the appearance of small grey stones. In fact when I first viewed them in the most beautiful growing area in Canada, I thought they were stones.

I charge that in general it would be impossible to contribute any significant change in potato size and quantity directly attributable to the seed potato size. There are so many growing variables that regressive analysis is most difficult to apply. The researcher has got a paper out and certainly has given some food for bar room discussions, with no practical significance. And apparently he/she has a non reflective following, who will take every opportunity to propagate the"conclusion" and it will become an Internet concept. Similarly to UPSIDEDOWN TOMATO PLANTERS. I for one wont be planting two pound potato seeds, and see no future for TPS as a common planting source. To each his own.

As I previously noted...

Positive observations and experiences carry weight. They add to our knowledge and enrich our lives. Negative observations and experiences do not.

Negative observations, at their best, serve to confirm and reinforce positive things we already believe. Negative experiences though, like weeds in the garden, are a detraction and if left unchecked become injurious. To prevent that they must at times be pulled.

I have to wonder if that may the inevitable end here. It has happened before.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by RebelRidin

As I previously noted...

Positive observations and experiences carry weight. They add to our knowledge and enrich our lives. Negative observations and experiences do not.

Negative observations, at their best, serve to confirm and reinforce positive things we already believe. Negative experiences though, like weeds in the garden, are a detraction and if left unchecked become injurious. To prevent that they must at times be pulled.

I have to wonder if that may the inevitable end here. It has happened before.

I hope not. Hopefully calmer heads will prevail. Certainly Durgan has made many positive posts here. None can deny that. The potato war seems to be a thing that sticks in everyone's craw though. Since I don't grow potatoes I have been mostly ignoring the exchanges. I simply don't know and let the ones with experience on potatoes haggle it out.

I don't necessarily think people have to get personal about it. There are a lot of posts made by everyone here that I don't necessarily agree with. Heck I even have made posts that when later reading them months later I found I disagreed with myself!

Bottom line is: Can Tom Wagner grow potatoes? OHHHH YEAH. Tom knows more about potatoes than I'll ever know. Can Durgan grow potatoes? OHHHH YEAH. I have seen the photos myself. VERY productive crops. If you were to calculate it out and were able to maintain the same results full scale commercial acreage, it would near world record production. I know because I calculated it out myself. Last I knew 72.9 tonnes of potatoes per hectare was the world record. Durgan makes his calculations per plant, not per hectare, but if you were to calculate it out and get similar results with 3 plants per square meter, it is right up there.

So to me there is no reason for fighting. BOTH guys can grow a mean potato! Tom probably knows more about genetics and science behind it all, but what Durgan does is nothing to dismiss.

All everyone needs to do is get over the personalities.

[Durgan]

32
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and
self-contain'd,
I stand and look at them long and long.

They do not sweat and whine about their condition,
They do not lie awake in the dark and weep for their sins,
They do not make me sick discussing their duty to God,
Not one is dissatisfied, not one is demented with the mania of
owning things,
Not one kneels to another, nor to his kind that lived thousands of
years ago,
Not one is respectable or unhappy over the whole earth.

Song of Myself
Part 2
by Walt Whitman
(1819-1892)

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by linzelu100

Thanks for the info. We do have kennebec at our farm center and yukon gold, so that makes it easy for my first year. How many pounds do I need to plant (how much space) to yield about 120 pounds of potatoes? More is ok, but I am striving to at least make this number. I grow using 4 foot wide rows...most are 32 foot long, but I can rearrange for whatever works best for spuds.

Lindsey

Lindsey, you're on the right course to success. Kennebec and Yukon Gold are good choices, especially for the first adventure. I did some 40 foot rows my first time and we had potatoes for 7 months (even though I did little of anything to maintain them during the growing time). I even harvested early so that we could get lots of smaller potatoes for stews and roasts. The Yukon Gold gave a slightly larger harvest, but we had no complaints.

The main thing is to put something in the ground and learn about that veggie. If you don't get enough yield, plant more next time. Most of us plant more than enough and give some away to those who need it.

Either way, just enjoy the experience. My logic tells me that if potatoes are left in the ground a bit longer, they will probably be a bit larger - all things being even. With my first crop, I didn't so much care that I had larger or smaller spuds, I was just proud that I had grown something new.

Take care and enjoy the process.

[Durgan]

My evaluation of Kennebeck.

http://www.durgan.org/URL/?JUAPB 20 August 2008 Kennebec Potatoes.
Kennebec Potatoes harvested today. The tuber has some angular features, and I will not be growing this type next year. My opinion is Superior and Chieftain are better choices. There is no significant difference between chitted and NOT chitted. I will chit next year without removing the main eye cluster, which I did in 2007. Total weight was 23 kg from 13 plants for an average weight per plant of 1769g about 4.4 lbs per plant. I did not attempt to keep, long term.

[Fusion_power]

Durgan, those Kennebec appear to have been planted a bit far apart. They do best at 9 to 12 inches between plants and about 3 feet between rows. If you plant them further apart, they tend to develop a bumpy texture on the outside. The muck soil you appear to be growing in makes this worse.