Removing Tomato Laterals aka Suckers - Page 2

Tomcore · November 3, 2009

Lat year a mate of mine planted a few tomato plants in his garden, literally just his garden where flowers and shrubs ect grow. He didn't fertilize, didn't stake/cage them and didn't water them, and of course he didn't remove the laterals/suckers. To be honest he didn't know anything about growing tomatoes nor did he really care..... and they grew into monsters and produced plenty!!!!

Just goes to show that despite all these flashy techniques people swear by, at the end of the day its all just personal preference, and in my mates case, luck. He was lucky that it rained enough for the lants to get enough water, and that the soil in his garden had enough nutrients....

So anyways, with the lateral/sucker debate I agree with what other people have said, it depends on your climate, the variety you are growing, where your plants are planted (ground or container) and if you really care how your plants look.

Since I have several plants of the same variety I am going to experiment with some. Some will have the laterials/suckers removed, and others won't. I can't wait to see how it works.

Sory I wrote so much, I just got back from an exam and havn't quite settled back into the normality of not needing to write as much as possible! haha

Salty_Dog · November 3, 2009

I just pulled some suckers that were 5 inches long out.

Couldn't help myself, only the Grosse Lisse that are producing such prolific vigor and suckers.... I kind of wanted to leave them, but once i removed one... i couldn't stop

feldon30 · November 4, 2009

Some tomato varieties are so ornery, that within 3 weeks, there is not one "main leader", but a spiderweb of branches. I wouldn't know where to begin.

no charge · November 4, 2009

I desucker my plants regularly, but I plant them very close (10"s). So, if I didn't remove the suckers, I would have an inpenetrable mess that would be prone to many diseases.

If you think about it, the more energy a plant has to support foliage, the less it will have to go to the fruit.

Just my opinion.

no charge

bigbubbacain · November 4, 2009

I pull suckers early on until my plants reach the desired height, then I let them do as they wish. I've been growing on wire panels instead of round cages, so I've got a lot of space to accomodate sucker growth. I've also pruned in the past. Pruning makes a nice tidy plant with controlled clusters of fruit, and also allows you to space plants closer together. I will say that in my experience, plants allowed to grow laterally will definitely need more space between them. They also need to be trained regularly by tying up new growth so that the plants have good support as they continue to set fruit. At first I was concerned that creating more in-between space meant less plants, but allowing my plants to form a "wall of tomatoes" more than makes up for it. Either method will require some effort. I never had much luck with just dropping a tomato in the dirt, putting a cage around it, and just letting it do what it wants.

Penny_Oz · November 4, 2009

I'm posting the following link because it contains some info on pruning, at the end of the article.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...10137ch26.html

Instead of looking at leaves as taking energy from the plant, we need to see that it is the leaves that produce energy for the plants to use. More leaves = more energy in the plant = more fruit to harvest.

geeboss · November 4, 2009

Well a kind soul on TV sent me 2 Cowlick BW seeds TY and 1 of them I'm starting in February 1st and taking the suckers and cloning them into a plant so that by April 15th I'll have atleast 5 or 6 Cowlicks to plant in my SWC. Thanks to Ray for his inspiration prior year who carried over Purple Haze F1. So for me I'm all for letting the suckers grow till they reach 4 1/2 in. and then rooting them. Can't wait till Feb 1st ....

George

huntsman · November 5, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penny_Oz

I'm posting the following link because it contains some info on pruning, at the end of the article.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...10137ch26.html

Instead of looking at leaves as taking energy from the plant, we need to see that it is the leaves that produce energy for the plants to use. More leaves = more energy in the plant = more fruit to harvest.

Nice article, Penny -

Thanks!

no charge · November 5, 2009

Absolutely Penny, Thanks so much! I might add that the host website is a treasure of infomation, worthy of bookmarking for future study.

no charge

Tomcore · November 5, 2009

Thanks for the article penny, very interesting stuff!

celerystalksmidnite · November 5, 2009

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've never seen the use in pruning. There are a lot of tomato experts that prune very little or not at all. Charles Wilber, who grew record plants with record production, trained his plants to something like six or eight stems early on and then left them alone.

If a person likes to prune and thinks it's useful, I say go for it. I'm not aware of any compelling reason to do so, however. And the dangers just might outweigh any potential benefits.

Vince · November 6, 2009

It all boils down to preference. My preference is to only sucker branches that clearly will not be useful to the plant(shoots buried deep in the plant that get no light, and retard air circulation). That being said, I rarely sucker until the plants are very big. One more point to consider....If the your window for fruit set is very small(High temp, low temp) it may be benificial to maximize the amount of blossums that can potentially set fuit during that time(limited or no suckering). JMHO.

RJW · November 12, 2009

I think I'm the person Containerted is referring to above who did a little experimenting this year. I went into some details on another site (aka MojaveBob). I am a complete amateur with a good friend who is a complete pro, makes his living growing hydroponic and soil based greenhouse tomatoes. I've watched his operation, the intensive one and two lead pruning, read all the various advice I could find on the internet and experimented with 18 plants, 3 varieties, pruned to 2, 4, and 6 leads and another set with no pruning. I'll spare the detailed information because it was admittedly not at all scientific, BUT a couple possible advantages to the 2 lead heavily pruned plants were suggested by my results. One, with each variety the 2 lead plants were the earliest to set fruit, and in the case of bigger fruited plants, they were considerably earlier by three weeks to a month. Sounds great, but my weather had something to do with that. There was a window of nice fruit setting weather the 2 lead plants took advantage of and the others missed before some oppressive heat stopped them. So with normal weather I doubt the earlier plants would be that much earlier, but it was still notable for people with very short seasons who have trouble getting fruit from later season plants, that perhaps pruning could provide a benefit. Two, very simply, you can fit more varieties in with heavy pruning. For those with limited space and that urge to grow many many many types (sound familiar), well, maybe this makes a little sense.

More importantly, other than those two items, the other plants were all healthier and more productive. Going forward my main croppers will be left alone save trimming up the bottoms, a very few difficult to raise and or late varieties will probably be pruned to see if what I observed gets me some fruit, which with Brandywine in the Mojave desert is better than nothing.

Oh. Hi Tomatoville. This is my first post here. I usually don't have so much to say, but prefer to read and learn.

Worth1 · November 12, 2009

I read through most every thread and from my knowledge on the subject I will tell you what I know how ever worthless it may be.

First a sucker is a stem that starts from the root base of the plant this is natures insurance against the death of the parent plant.
The upper lateral/branching is just the way the plant grows, some branch more than others.

Now let’s say you want the plant to do something it doesn’t normally do like not branch.
You would do this in the case of staking tomatoes.
Many tomato farms I grew up around would stake tomatoes and they would cut back the vines leaving two or three main stems to get tomatoes from.
These plants were grown about two feet apart and the rows were far enough apart to get a cart down.

Next reason for cutting/pruning is for air movement now this is fine and dandy for a dense foliage tomato plant down here in the south (Texas) as long as you don’t get carried away.

The reason being is the sun will tear up the poor tomatoes and they will surly sun scaled and in my opinion would be worthless to eat.
This would tell us to determine if our particular varieties we are growing are sparse or dense foliage plants as some can get rather wispy.

I have tried the wispy plants and they just don’t do well here in central Texas as all of the tomatoes were scaled by the sun.
I won’t grow them again as it is a lesson learned from experience.

(I don’t prune)

Worth

RJW · November 13, 2009

Sunscalding was a major issue with my pruned plants. I don't get a heavy yield in the desert so in an effort to save as much of it as I could, I cut large fabric leaves from burlap and made my own foliage. What a hassle. Probably my biggest issue with pruning was the hassle. No, the unnecessary hassle.

November 4, 2009	#18
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Some tomato varieties are so ornery, that within 3 weeks, there is not one "main leader", but a spiderweb of branches. I wouldn't know where to begin. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

November 6, 2009	#27
Vince Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 942	It all boils down to preference. My preference is to only sucker branches that clearly will not be useful to the plant(shoots buried deep in the plant that get no light, and retard air circulation). That being said, I rarely sucker until the plants are very big. One more point to consider....If the your window for fruit set is very small(High temp, low temp) it may be benificial to maximize the amount of blossums that can potentially set fuit during that time(limited or no suckering). JMHO. __________________ Vince

November 3, 2009	#16
Tomcore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5	Lat year a mate of mine planted a few tomato plants in his garden, literally just his garden where flowers and shrubs ect grow. He didn't fertilize, didn't stake/cage them and didn't water them, and of course he didn't remove the laterals/suckers. To be honest he didn't know anything about growing tomatoes nor did he really care..... and they grew into monsters and produced plenty!!!! Just goes to show that despite all these flashy techniques people swear by, at the end of the day its all just personal preference, and in my mates case, luck. He was lucky that it rained enough for the lants to get enough water, and that the soil in his garden had enough nutrients.... So anyways, with the lateral/sucker debate I agree with what other people have said, it depends on your climate, the variety you are growing, where your plants are planted (ground or container) and if you really care how your plants look. Since I have several plants of the same variety I am going to experiment with some. Some will have the laterials/suckers removed, and others won't. I can't wait to see how it works. Sory I wrote so much, I just got back from an exam and havn't quite settled back into the normality of not needing to write as much as possible! haha

November 3, 2009	#17
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	I just pulled some suckers that were 5 inches long out. Couldn't help myself, only the Grosse Lisse that are producing such prolific vigor and suckers.... I kind of wanted to leave them, but once i removed one... i couldn't stop

November 4, 2009	#19
no charge Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: West Plains, Mo. Posts: 47	I desucker my plants regularly, but I plant them very close (10"s). So, if I didn't remove the suckers, I would have an inpenetrable mess that would be prone to many diseases. If you think about it, the more energy a plant has to support foliage, the less it will have to go to the fruit. Just my opinion. no charge

November 4, 2009	#20
bigbubbacain Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Zone 9 Texas, Fort Bend County Posts: 436	I pull suckers early on until my plants reach the desired height, then I let them do as they wish. I've been growing on wire panels instead of round cages, so I've got a lot of space to accomodate sucker growth. I've also pruned in the past. Pruning makes a nice tidy plant with controlled clusters of fruit, and also allows you to space plants closer together. I will say that in my experience, plants allowed to grow laterally will definitely need more space between them. They also need to be trained regularly by tying up new growth so that the plants have good support as they continue to set fruit. At first I was concerned that creating more in-between space meant less plants, but allowing my plants to form a "wall of tomatoes" more than makes up for it. Either method will require some effort. I never had much luck with just dropping a tomato in the dirt, putting a cage around it, and just letting it do what it wants.

November 4, 2009	#21
Penny_Oz Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 3	I'm posting the following link because it contains some info on pruning, at the end of the article. http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...10137ch26.html Instead of looking at leaves as taking energy from the plant, we need to see that it is the leaves that produce energy for the plants to use. More leaves = more energy in the plant = more fruit to harvest.

November 4, 2009	#22
geeboss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Fairfax, VA Z7 Posts: 524	Well a kind soul on TV sent me 2 Cowlick BW seeds TY and 1 of them I'm starting in February 1st and taking the suckers and cloning them into a plant so that by April 15th I'll have atleast 5 or 6 Cowlicks to plant in my SWC. Thanks to Ray for his inspiration prior year who carried over Purple Haze F1. So for me I'm all for letting the suckers grow till they reach 4 1/2 in. and then rooting them. Can't wait till Feb 1st .... George

November 5, 2009	#24
no charge Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: West Plains, Mo. Posts: 47	Absolutely Penny, Thanks so much! I might add that the host website is a treasure of infomation, worthy of bookmarking for future study. no charge

November 5, 2009	#26
celerystalksmidnite Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SE Texas Zone 8 Posts: 101	I'm sure there are exceptions, but I've never seen the use in pruning. There are a lot of tomato experts that prune very little or not at all. Charles Wilber, who grew record plants with record production, trained his plants to something like six or eight stems early on and then left them alone. If a person likes to prune and thinks it's useful, I say go for it. I'm not aware of any compelling reason to do so, however. And the dangers just might outweigh any potential benefits.

November 12, 2009	#28
RJW Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: California desert Posts: 31	I think I'm the person Containerted is referring to above who did a little experimenting this year. I went into some details on another site (aka MojaveBob). I am a complete amateur with a good friend who is a complete pro, makes his living growing hydroponic and soil based greenhouse tomatoes. I've watched his operation, the intensive one and two lead pruning, read all the various advice I could find on the internet and experimented with 18 plants, 3 varieties, pruned to 2, 4, and 6 leads and another set with no pruning. I'll spare the detailed information because it was admittedly not at all scientific, BUT a couple possible advantages to the 2 lead heavily pruned plants were suggested by my results. One, with each variety the 2 lead plants were the earliest to set fruit, and in the case of bigger fruited plants, they were considerably earlier by three weeks to a month. Sounds great, but my weather had something to do with that. There was a window of nice fruit setting weather the 2 lead plants took advantage of and the others missed before some oppressive heat stopped them. So with normal weather I doubt the earlier plants would be that much earlier, but it was still notable for people with very short seasons who have trouble getting fruit from later season plants, that perhaps pruning could provide a benefit. Two, very simply, you can fit more varieties in with heavy pruning. For those with limited space and that urge to grow many many many types (sound familiar), well, maybe this makes a little sense. More importantly, other than those two items, the other plants were all healthier and more productive. Going forward my main croppers will be left alone save trimming up the bottoms, a very few difficult to raise and or late varieties will probably be pruned to see if what I observed gets me some fruit, which with Brandywine in the Mojave desert is better than nothing. Oh. Hi Tomatoville. This is my first post here. I usually don't have so much to say, but prefer to read and learn.

November 12, 2009	#29
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	I read through most every thread and from my knowledge on the subject I will tell you what I know how ever worthless it may be. First a sucker is a stem that starts from the root base of the plant this is natures insurance against the death of the parent plant. The upper lateral/branching is just the way the plant grows, some branch more than others. Now let’s say you want the plant to do something it doesn’t normally do like not branch. You would do this in the case of staking tomatoes. Many tomato farms I grew up around would stake tomatoes and they would cut back the vines leaving two or three main stems to get tomatoes from. These plants were grown about two feet apart and the rows were far enough apart to get a cart down. Next reason for cutting/pruning is for air movement now this is fine and dandy for a dense foliage tomato plant down here in the south (Texas) as long as you don’t get carried away. The reason being is the sun will tear up the poor tomatoes and they will surly sun scaled and in my opinion would be worthless to eat. This would tell us to determine if our particular varieties we are growing are sparse or dense foliage plants as some can get rather wispy. I have tried the wispy plants and they just don’t do well here in central Texas as all of the tomatoes were scaled by the sun. I won’t grow them again as it is a lesson learned from experience. (I don’t prune) Worth

November 13, 2009	#30
RJW Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: California desert Posts: 31	Sunscalding was a major issue with my pruned plants. I don't get a heavy yield in the desert so in an effort to save as much of it as I could, I cut large fabric leaves from burlap and made my own foliage. What a hassle. Probably my biggest issue with pruning was the hassle. No, the unnecessary hassle.